A Thank You Note to Bose Bashers

Ahh I wouldn’t wana suffer that fate plenty of big speakers look good and today they have slim towers .
Some satellites can get the job done.
3 2 1 beats tv speakers I bet tho .
My dad hates surround sound claims it’s a waste of money he says tv speakers are just fine ........:bigok::dunno:

He's entitled to his belief and the system he likes -
but I enjoy movies too much to suffer crappy built in TV speakers.

I'll keep my 7.1 system - 4 UREI studio monitors for front mains and side surround,
- a pair of DCM TF600s for rears, and a very nice JBL B460 sub -
and laugh like crazy appreciating the sonics of many concerts and films.
 
He's entitled to his belief and the system he likes -
but I enjoy movies too much to suffer crappy built in TV speakers.

I'll keep my 7.1 system - 4 UREI studio monitors for front mains and side surround,
- a pair of DCM TF600s for rears, and a very nice JBL B460 sub -
and laugh like crazy appreciating the sonics of many concerts and films.
Wow those are some high end speakers !UREI studiomonitors are like a super version of my klipsch. It must sound like amazing ! How much did they cost a lot ? Do you need a special amp for them.
Are jbl sub pretty clear?
Klipsch are 2 way I think don’t see a midrange, not sure what the horn covers . Is the center supposed to do All the mid & voices ?
Running 7.1 ch my sub and onkyo 818 are my best parts of system tho . Speakers are old best buy klipsch from 4-5 years ago.
Sad how everything Is obsolete so fast haha .
 
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I remember a time when a lot of people thought 901s were the do all end all speaker, but it was the 70's and we smoked a lot of weed. Seriously though, I never thought the 901s sounded bad, just not great. Different strokes for different folks though, and I'm sure not everyone would love the Allison Twos that are my favorites.
I raise my glass to your Allison Twos
 
Perhaps you meant "a more conventional (normal dispersion) design"? I had a set of 901s for a while, and certainly did not consider them to be bad speakers. But my complaint with them was that they didn't create much of an image at all. I didn't get a sense of performers in front of me at all, so it just didn't sound "real" to me. But they sure could fill the room, with no worries about a small sweet spot.
No, I meant "limited". I don't know that any one dispersion pattern or type is correct or more correct than another, though. I've heard and owned plenty of horn speakers that sounded great. I just know what sounds good to me in my system and room. And what sounds more like good, live music and less like it's been miniaturized and canned .
 
Dr. Bose measured the direct vs. reflected content at nearby Boston Symphony Hall and found that it was 11% direct and 89% reflected. He then reasoned that the speaker should deliver its sound using the same ratio.

I don't buy it, those numbers are way too convenient for the 8+1 drivers. :)

But then he threw it all out with the 802s with the 8 drivers facing the room... ;)
 
Wow those are some high end speakers !
UREI studiomonitors are like a super version of my klipsch. It must sound like amazing ! How much did they cost a lot ? Do you need a special amp for them.
Are jbl sub pretty clear?

The room has evolved through a lot of systems over 12 years or so JBLs, DCMs, Vandersteens, then UREIs. The UREIs are the smaller 809A model, with JBL-based 12 inch 2 way coaxial drivers ... The JBL sub under the right speaker carries the low end well.
Bought the UREIs used for well under a thousand a pair, and once I heard one pair, i jumped when ! saw another pair for sale in Richmond a year later (4 hr round trip)!
They are pretty efficient, I run them with B&K amps 200w/ch, tho I rarely turn them up much.
here is a link to the thread on that space - http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/audiophile-home-theater-room.459878/page-5
 
When I was in my teens I use to lust after Bose, based upon their ads in audio magazines. My first comparison was hearing several Bose models, then hearing Polk SDA's driven by some tube gear. While I found the Bose pleasant, the Polks sent a chill down my spine and I sat transfixed at what I was hearing. That was some 35 years ago. So when I hear Bose, I say you can do better and that doesn't mean spending more.
 
When I was in my teens I use to lust after Bose, based upon their ads in audio magazines. My first comparison was hearing several Bose models, then hearing Polk SDA's driven by some tube gear. While I found the Bose pleasant, the Polks sent a chill down my spine and I sat transfixed at what I was hearing. That was some 35 years ago. So when I hear Bose, I say you can do better and that doesn't mean spending more.
Sincere cheers for your spine chills...must be the special synergy between those warm glowing tubes and Polk speakers...I believe this condition has been scientifically documented in the American Medical Journal as Polkatubaeuphorica
 
No, I meant "limited". I don't know that any one dispersion pattern or type is correct or more correct than another, though. I've heard and owned plenty of horn speakers that sounded great. I just know what sounds good to me in my system and room. And what sounds more like good, live music and less like it's been miniaturized and canned .

You are coming close to bashing non-bose speakers. No bashing allowed.
 
A roommate in college had 901’s, my Zenith Allegro’s in the next room were a lot better sounding to me and the othe 2 roommates.
Just my worthless opinion.
 
I stumbled across this video which I think gives some insight into the Bose philosophy.


The 901 was designed to optimize a specific set of parameters. Owners that wanted to reproduce the experience of classical music in an orchestra hall, and had the right room at home, probably loved them. The 901's are likely sub-optimal for other uses, like trying to reproduce the experience of jazz being played in a small venue.

I think the argument is the same for many of the Bose products. For example, the SoundLink Mini can't compete straight up with a full sized system, but it what it does is quite remarkable for something that is battery powered and can fit in your pocket. Once again, optimized for a different set of parameters.
 
I don't appreciate your bashing of my honor student.

As for your question...I think I must be missing the point.

My comment regarding "your honor student" is more about the intensity of focus that border collies have than it is about your honor student. If you do indeed have an honor student, I truly congratulate you... and this is coming from a lifelong career educator.

As for my question... I'll try and simplify it: Why don't speaker manufacturers actively market their products like Bose does? If indeed Advents, Infinitys, and Vandersteens are better than Bose, why don't they challenge Bose in the marketplace?

I have a feeling that if someone/we picked another manufacturer... say Advents or Infinitys... and touted them to AKers, that we would get some bashing of Advents and Infinitys. Advent and Infinity owners would be pissed if anyone bashed their speakers... and off we go again.
 
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Beca
My comment regarding "your honor student" is more about the intensity of focus that border collies have than it is about your honor student. If you do indeed have an honor student, I truly congratulate you... and this is coming from a lifelong career educator.

As for my question... I'll try and simplify it: Why don't speaker manufacturers actively market their products like Bose does? If indeed Advents, Infinitys, and Vandersteens are better than Bose, why don't they challenge Bose in the marketplace?

I have a feeling that if someone/we picked another manufacturer... say Advents or Infinitys... and touted them to AKers, that we would get some bashing of Advents and Infinitys. Advent and Infinity owners would be pissed if anyone bashed their speakers... and off we go again.
IMO, the answer is quite obvious. Most other companies are not as dedicated to research and development and hence do not produce many innovative products that catch the publics imagination or solve a practical problem. Can we agree that the rectangle box with whatever amount of drivers in it is a mature technology that can only be improved incrementally if at all with advancements in new materials and computer modeling. Company A may make a more attractive box or Company B may have the latest composite materials but what they still have is basically what we have had for more than a half century - a rectangle box with drivers.
 
Beca

IMO, the answer is quite obvious. Most other companies are not as dedicated to research and development and hence do not produce many innovative products that catch the publics imagination or solve a practical problem. Can we agree that the rectangle box with whatever amount of drivers in it is a mature technology that can only be improved incrementally if at all with advancements in new materials and computer modeling. Company A may make a more attractive box or Company B may have the latest composite materials but what they still have is basically what we have had for more than a half century - a rectangle box with drivers.

"...a mature technology that can only be improved incrementally if at all"

Great observation bruhl.... So at worst, Bose speakers are only incrementally behind the Vandersteens, et. al. Or, heaven forbid, just a bit ahead.

I love it.
 
"...a mature technology that can only be improved incrementally if at all"

Great observation bruhl.... So at worst, Bose speakers are only incrementally behind the Vandersteens, et. al. Or, heaven forbid, just a bit ahead.

I love it.
Maybe as far as research goes Bose may be slightly behind or ahead of Vandersteen but as far as sound ? Well its all subjective :rolleyes:

Audiofreak71
 
Yes, they are very good at marketing, and have used their prowess in this regard to build what I assume is one of the largest speaker and related-products company in the world. They are targeting the mass market, not those who buy based on sound quality (which is a relatively small niche market). Bose is a great case study for the power of brand-building; the market they've targeted overwhelmingly believes that Bose = best. Combine their brilliant marketing with their low cost of manufacturing (ever look at a Bose driver?), and you've got a recipe for a market juggernaut.

One of their most brilliant marketing tactics was the concentration on auto sound systems, which they sold relatively inexpensively to auto manufacturers in return for prominent brand placement (but still at great margins, given the low cost drivers they typically use). This strategy dramatically expanded recognition of the Bose brand, and further positioned them as a "premium" product.

Only the small portion of the marketplace which prioritizes sound quality would argue otherwise. This small market cannot support the expense of mass marketing campaigns, and the speaker makers who focus on serious listeners generally don't pursue product line extensions (headphones, packaged surround systems, countertop sound, etc).

A notable exception is Harman International, which attempts to cover the entire marketplace, from convenience/lifestyle listeners to audiophiles, using a range of product lines and brands. I would guess their marketing budget is not insignificant, but it is somewhat diluted/fragmented by the need to support multiple brands in multiple segments.

Bottom line, the enthusiast/audiophile segment is small, it has different purchasing criteria, and it is not targeted by Bose. The companies who do target it are inherently small, given the small and fragmented market, and must survive on relatively low volumes. They therefore must have high margins (and high prices). In turn, this benefits Bose, which through their successful efforts to position the company as "high end", are able to demand the premium prices inherent in the audiophile segment, but with dramatically higher margins.
 
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"...a mature technology that can only be improved incrementally if at all"

Great observation bruhl.... So at worst, Bose speakers are only incrementally behind the Vandersteens, et. al. Or, heaven forbid, just a bit ahead.

I love it.

You were a career educator, yet make a logically flawed statement like this? The value of a particular set of speakers, to a serious listener, is how they sound...not how much R&D the company spends on products not targeted at serious listeners. By this measurement, to my ears, there are quite a few companies making significantly better speakers than Bose.

Bruhl (and I assume you as well) categorizes Bose speakers as among the best ever made. In my experience, most discriminating listeners would not agree.

Different opinions are fine. Flawed logic not so much.
 
AKers love to bash Bose. And many times it's the marketing strategy/behavior that is singled out.

My question is: If (and it's a BIG IF) there are other speaker manufacturers out there that AKers love, how come I NEVER EVER see ANY marketing strategies that they use? If there are so many other speaker manufacturers that are said to be "better than Bose," ... if those speakers are THAT MUCH BETTER than Bose, why don't they market them like Bose does????

I am certainly in the camp of "no bashing" per AK rules... and that includes Bose.

FWIW... I don't own anything Bose. I just don't like seeing/reading/hearing any audio equipment being bashed on AK.

AK is supposed to be about enthusiasm about audio... regardless of the equipment use to reproduce music recordings. To bash anyone's equipment through which they find enjoyment... well, that's just not good "karma."

If the bashing continues, maybe the AK title should change to: Audiokarma: All Audio, All Attitude, All of the Time... and then let's proceed with unabashed bashing!!

Peace, bros.
Well.. I was in the audio retail environment during the formative years of Bose and their landmark 901 speakers.. back when the 1801 amp and four 901s were offered as a package and the marketing scheme was in full swing. Without speaking directly to the merits of the speakers...or the amplifier... the reason other speaker manufactures don't market their products like Bose is because they don't have to. An example is Infinity back in the day... they, as other manufactures, marketed to the retail world through seminars... the Infinity example being at the Bonaventure in Los Angeles where they had set up behind a curtain various of their products, the headlined model being Monitor IIs, of which they had four being powered by big amplifiers and a digital source being supplied from a modified Sony Betamax. Behind the curtain was a studio drummer with full kit, and the speakers and related equipment. The demonstration, marketing, was to have the drummer play a set then have the speakers play the set... those seated in front of the curtain were asked to say which was live and which was Infinity... the audience being Southern California retailers.. mostly salesmen, a few service/technical people...and I can honestly say I couldn't tell which was which. For each demonstration they would at some point raise the curtain with one or the other playing.. and as many were right as were not... great sounding speakers, at least for that demonstration with drums. I am not bashing Bose, they have created a name for themselves... other manufactures do not need to market their products like Bose did/does...the way described on various posts in this thread.
 
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