MC240 Impedance speaker outlets

Then keep the MC240. Because, beside it's unique and great sound, it's a piece of american history that will only worth more as time goes by. Only six months with it and I can understand that very well. I am listening to it with the C32 as I write this.
 
My point was not why two amps but why not listen to the best one? If both sound the same, then get rid of the most expensive one.... I may be new here but I know about gear and mac addiction. Since March, I already bought the C26, the C32, the MC240 and I have a MC2100 right beside me. Pretty addictive, I must confess.

Yes it is a terrible illness - and a bunch of enablers here helping to further the disease rather than cure it. :biggrin:

I would recommend getting a spectral analysis of the MC2100 performed so that any aberrant response can be identified. When it's running properly, it's an excellent performing amplifier by the vast majority of accounts. Essentially the same as the MC2105 metered version with glass faceplate.
 
Often, we hear what we want to hear when comparing the sound of amplifiers. Both caddy and myself have detailed occasions where we set up A/B comparisons between the MC240 and a solid state Mc amp in a controlled setting (him an MC2505, me an MC7270). Neither of us was able to hear a difference when switching between them in real time.

You simply need more of what you already have - hence my earlier recommendations. A pair of MC240s in mono (I've done it) is nice, but the gain is only 3dB. You need more like 6-10dB based on what I'm hearing from you.
 
A couple days ago I've read a nice article on the web where one guy fell in love with the MC225 and, when paired with another guy's 225, he said that the magic was gone. The now two monoblocks didn't deliver their magic. That got me concerned or scared to invest in another 240. I believe in unicity, one mind drives it all pretty well. Maybe the second one wasn't up to par, who knows...

Damacman, I'm sorry about the MC3500, you were right. I've never seen or read about these extreme quality tube amps from McIntosh. I'm impressed. But so rare and expensive. Every week I learn about new models. Like the MC7100 that you can get for little money. Some say it's not a real mac because no autoformers. A friend of mine said I should look for the Mnley tube amps, they're supposed to be the best. Any thought on those?
 
I've never cared for the idea of doubling a stereo amp into mono. Some folks are happy with it. My feeling is to get an amp setup that better suits the application by design.

The Mac unity coupled amps are hard to beat for tube amp specsmanship. Sonically, there's a plethora of competing tube amps to consider.
 
A couple days ago I've read a nice article on the web where one guy fell in love with the MC225 and, when paired with another guy's 225, he said that the magic was gone. The now two monoblocks didn't deliver their magic. That got me concerned or scared to invest in another 240. I believe in unicity, one mind drives it all pretty well. Maybe the second one wasn't up to par, who knows...

Damacman, I'm sorry about the MC3500, you were right. I've never seen or read about these extreme quality tube amps from McIntosh. I'm impressed. But so rare and expensive. Every week I learn about new models. Like the MC7100 that you can get for little money. Some say it's not a real mac because no autoformers. A friend of mine said I should look for the Mnley tube amps, they're supposed to be the best. Any thought on those?
Sure, no worry. Be sure to keep an eye for a pair of MI-200s ... Equally as rare, but patience is a virtue.
 
I will chime in as a former owner of the Magnepan Tympani 1D speakers (which I think were the immediate predecessors of your speakers).

The good news is that because the bass panels are well damped mechanically and the impedance is (claimed by Magnepan to be) "purely resistive, 5 ohms at any frequency," amplifier damping factor should not be an issue. So you can use tubes or McIntosh autoformer amps without damping factor issues.

I am surprised that you did not like the MC2100. I want to amplify some of what was said above to say that unless the C26, C32, MC240, MC2100 have all been properly restored (re-capped and with other components replaced as needed, cleaned and bench tested, your listening impressions my not be useful or correct because the equipment may not be working to spec. E.g., you may not like the sound of the MC2100 because it may not be working to spec. When I bought my MC2505 (very similar design to the MC2100), it sounded old, fuzzy and funky. Upon return from restoration by Terry DeWick, it not sounded like one of the sweetest most musical amplifiers I've owned (over the last 45 years). So make sure everything is up to snuff before making listening comparisons and decisions.

I also have a MC275 IV (relatively modern version) which sounds more solid state-like but retains the open, clear midrange that I like with tubes. But not sure how it would sound on you Maggies.

A couple suggestions:
1. An older (totally restored) Audio Research D76A might be a cool amp for your speakers. Recall that the early days, Magnepan was helped along by ARC so you may find some (deliberate design) synergy between your older Maggies and older ARC amps. I recall hearing that Amp along with an ARC SP1A preamp and a pair of Tympani 1C speakers and it provided really beautiful, lushes mid range sound. It really left and impression but that was a long time and my memory may not be perfect.

But having said that, I found that my restored MC2505 (and my MC275) are both be sonically superior to my prior ARC D115 MK II amplifier, so unless there is some magic synergy, I would stick with Mc.

2. I think a better suggestion is bi-amplification - which is what I did with my Tympani ID. Your speakers are specifically designed for this and the owner's manual provides a lot of info on how to bi-amp. The down-side is that Bi-amping requires adding a crossover network between the pre-amp and the two amplifiers and (my old experience / experiments with the Tympani's) informs me that the an active cross-over network can add noise and distortion and may not be up to par with the surrounding Mc equipment. The good news is that the Maggies have a simple crossover design and are relatively easy to bi-amp. And the operator's manual addresses this issue (on pages 5 & 6) with suggestions on how to provide a minimally intrusive crossover network.

If you bi-amp, you could, for example, keep your (fully restored), sweet sounding MC240 connected to the tweeters (which will demand far less power from the MC240) and use maybe a pair of modern MC275 amps in mono-mode to put 150+ Watts into the bass panels and still have similar tube sound from the MC240 and MC275s through the midrange. Or something like that.

Good luck. Have fun.
 
Thank you for your multiple suggestions Terry.
I wonder if the XO-1 cross-over is still available from Magnaplanar at this point in time. I'll have to call them.
Another (more economical) suggestion would be to simply buy a pair of efficient speakers on the used market (90db or more). But someone told me that the more efficient a speaker, the lesser quality of sound will result. Is this true? I don't know. Someone else also told me that once you are used to planar speakers, it's almost impossible to go back to standard box speakers. That I believe but could give it a try. I now have the chance to buy a pair of used Pierre-Étienne Leon Integral speakers for 1K $ which are 91db efficiency and used to sell for 8K$ CAD some twenty five years ago.

The MC2100 seemed the perfect alternative, power wise, but the sound was too hard, read aggressive. More so than the two Bryston amps I have tried this summer after I have read that Magneplanar used to test their speakers with Bryston amps.

Lots of options available.

Thanks.
 
Thank you for your multiple suggestions Terry.
I wonder if the XO-1 cross-over is still available from Magnaplanar at this point in time. I'll have to call them.
Another (more economical) suggestion would be to simply buy a pair of efficient speakers on the used market (90db or more). But someone told me that the more efficient a speaker, the lesser quality of sound will result. Is this true? I don't know. Someone else also told me that once you are used to planar speakers, it's almost impossible to go back to standard box speakers. That I believe but could give it a try. I now have the chance to buy a pair of used Pierre-Étienne Leon Integral speakers for 1K $ which are 91db efficiency and used to sell for 8K$ CAD some twenty five years ago.

The MC2100 seemed the perfect alternative, power wise, but the sound was too hard, read aggressive. More so than the two Bryston amps I have tried this summer after I have read that Magneplanar used to test their speakers with Bryston amps.

Lots of options available.

Thanks.

I would be surprised if Magnepan still has an XO-1 but they might or might have a newer version or might have advice on how to bi-amp. The XO-1 looks simple enough that you might be able to make an equivalent.

The point I was trying to make about the MC2100 is that a properly restored one might not sound hard - that's an adjective I'd never apply to my very similar MC2505. Has the 2100 you have been restored? If not, don't reject the idea of a 2100 until you hear one that you know is working correctly.

Back in the late '70s, I settled in on bi-amping my Tympani 1D with two Bryston Amps - a 2B for the tweeter and a 3B for the bass panels. The 2B was rated at 50 W per at 8 ohms and 100 W per at 4 ohms. The 3B was rated at twice that, so I was providing 300 W per into the 4-ohm Maggies. I started with just the 2B full range and it sounded great, but when I was in rock and roll mode, it would get hot and shut itself off. So I had to bring in the 3B. Since the two amps had the same gain and input impedance, building a simple, 1-pole passive crossover was simple - basically 4 capacitors inserted between the preamp (which was a Mark Levinson JC-2) and power amps. My dealer made a little box for me with this crossover inside. I think the XO-1 is a very similar idea.

I came to believe that the tweeters on the Maggies were "slow" and maybe rolled off or recessed. This led me to the "fast" Bryston amps and also to moving coil phono cartridges. I was not the only person with that belief as people were selling an after-market panel that you could mount on the Maggies that added a Decca ribbon tweeter (or super tweeter) and Magnepan subsequently stopped using planer-magnetic tweeters and started using ribbon tweeters for their speakers.

By the way, it's probably time to replace the capacitors in you Maggies' internal crossover network, if you've not done so already.
 
Often, we hear what we want to hear when comparing the sound of amplifiers. Both caddy and myself have detailed occasions where we set up A/B comparisons between the MC240 and a solid state Mc amp in a controlled setting (him an MC2505, me an MC7270). Neither of us was able to hear a difference when switching between them in real time.

You simply need more of what you already have - hence my earlier recommendations. A pair of MC240s in mono (I've done it) is nice, but the gain is only 3dB. You need more like 6-10dB based on what I'm hearing from you.

A 240 in mono is 80w, so that is 3db, you also gain another 3 on the 2nd amp...
 
A 240 in mono is 80w, so that is 3db, you also gain another 3 on the 2nd amp...

Are you sure? I'd say it's twice the power, period. 2 X MC240 would be 3 db more than one MC240, not 6.
 
To TSmith,

Thanks for the reminder to change the capacitors on the Magnepan, I completely overlooked this thru the years.

Where do you think I could find those caps today?
 
To TSmith,

To answer your question, neither my 240 nor the 2100 have been properly restored. So I will reserve my final judgment for the 2100 after I hear one that is in tip top shape. As for the 240, it already sounds awesome, even if it's probably not at it's very best.
 
The 240 'likes' in-spec passive components and tubes and clean tight contacts in switches, controls, and tube sockets. The 2100 the same but sub transistors for tubes.
 
But someone told me that the more efficient a speaker, the lesser quality of sound will result. Is this true?

You need to stop listening to that person. I myself use a set of MC40 monoblocks with HeathKit AS101 speakers that are basically Altec Valencias in nicer cabinets. Rated at about 99 db so they are very sensitive. They are very dynamic and clear, it's a magical pairing. A simple 2 way design that uses a 15" woofer that hands off the mids to a horn loaded driver at 800Hz in stock form. Very easy to drive and will play fairly loud on a flea watt amp. Paired with the Mac's it's magical.
See if someone in your area with tubes has Altec's or even Klipsh with horns so you can get a listen. For me it was a game changer.

BillWojo
 
To TSmith,

Thanks for the reminder to change the capacitors on the Magnepan, I completely overlooked this thru the years.

Where do you think I could find those caps today?

A few years back, I used Dayton and Solen branded polypropylene capacitors (adding 10% bypass capacitors of the same types) in my Advents, ARs and Acoustats. I used the same value of capacitance with the same or higher voltage rating as the original. I got them from Part Express.

But note that several people on AK and even in this thread may have better or more up to date advice.

So you'll have to open up the speakers and see what's in there. Note that polypropylene caps may be physically larger than the originals and so may or may not actually fit inside the speakers. You may want to find a tech to make the switch if you're not sure about it.
 
Ouf! So much work to be done! On the amps as on the speakers. And I'm not a good tech...

So today, I'm having this crazy idea to just get a brand new MA252. An all in one simpe solution. Not too expensive, not to powerfu, but nice, cool and simple. Question is: can the MA262 deliver the goods? That means just good music? I 'd be curious to try it at home.
 
A rebuilt MC240 will put out closer to 45 wpc stereo, 90 watts in mono.

Actually it's not uncommon for a restored MC240 to make ~ 50 wpc while meeting distortion spec; around 90 wpc for the MC275 and low-mid 30s wpc for the MC225.
 
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