Rant about buying used records and a question...

[Eastham]

So I'm at my wits end, I buy a "Near mint" record from eBay, Discogs, etc. And a lot of the time I get a record that's covered in dust, how can you grade a record that's covered in dust!?..
So I clean the record and the pops and crackles clear up and the hiss goes down but sometimes, something like 70% of the time, I get this horrible static sounding distortion that follows the peaks of the track, is this static? My records feel fine and don't seem staticly charged. Or is it groove damage?
My ATS-13 stylus is a .2 mil stylus so it tracks pretty deep in the groove and some of my records sound perfectly fine so I know it's not my alignment and said stylus is brand new I bought it last week to replace the original.
It's pretty frustrating to buy a record and have it arrive completely unplayable and It doesn't help that there isn't any record shops in my local area and the ones that have good albums always charge a fortune...

 

[Lazarus Long]

I dont know.. Maybe you have just picked all the wrong sellers? If your albums are arriving not as described, complain to the seller about it.. They will give you a refund. There are plenty of good record sellers on eBay. I dont buy many online, but id say 95% have been as described and clean.

 

[4-2-7]

So I clean the record and the pops and crackles clear up and the hiss goes down but sometimes, something like 70% of the time, I get this horrible static sounding distortion that follows the peaks of the track, is this static?

What's the process you use to clean your records?

And a lot of the time I get a record that's covered in dust, how can you grade a record that's covered in dust!?..

You don't grade dust, you look at the records to see if they are warped, have scratches and or light abrasions, the label around the spindle hole will give some info on how many plays. You then grade the cover as to ware and tear.

Not many record sellers are willing to wash the records they are selling. They would then need to have all new inner sleeves, and then seal the whole record in a outer sleeve to keep it clean in shipping.

Most will not sound grade at all because that takes a ton of time.

 

[petemcfc]

I dont buy second hand records of Ebay, only new and sealed,I have had only one bad experience on discogs and this happened last month.
Bad photo but this was described as NM/M-

I wasnt best impressed,the seller had over 2000 positive feedbacks and not one negative,he got one off me.
I did think hard about doing that without contacting him first but thought sod it he needs to learn a lesson.
I dont sell online as its too much hassle,I know people who do and they always downgrade their description,Ive found that to be true in my purchases.
The seller got back to me,he was not happy,over a series of messages he questioned my eyesight,age and parentage,then he threatened to report me to Discogs.
I carnt say it bothered me,I enjoyed replying back to his insults.
Two points,if a seller describes the media condition as visibly inspected I will not buy that record,though when the description is that the record has been played for inspection purposes what equipment and stylus shape has the vendor used?That is always in the back of my mind.
Im not sure where in the NW of England you are but if you are anywhere near Todmorden there is a market on every Sunday,there is a double stall run by a father and son,Steve and Robin.
They are very honest and well priced,and they will do a deal without haggling.

 

[Lazarus Long]

Maybe we need to define, "covered in dust".. Most reputable sellers are not selling albums that are unreasonably dusty are they?

 

[Eastham]

What's the process you use to clean your records?


You don't grade dust, you look at the records to see if they are warped, have scratches and or light abrasions, the label around the spindle hole will give some info on how many plays. You then grade the cover as to ware and tear.

Not many record sellers are willing to wash the records they are selling. They would then need to have all new inner sleeves, and then seal the whole record in a outer sleeve to keep it clean in shipping.

Most will not sound grade at all because that takes a ton of time.

I start with a dry brush cleaning with my carbon fiber brush, then if still bad I'll move onto a wet wash with my AudioTechnica "Sonic Broom" Works really well, if that don't do it I used some cleaning fluid on a goats hair brush and wash around the record then rinse with destilled water, last ditch attempt for really bad records, I use non fragrant dish soap with my goats hair brush, then rinse with destilled drying for both with a clean soft towel.


To be fair all they'd have to do is play the first middle and last track for a few seconds a time, a record could look pristine but if it's been touched by a broken stylus could sound horrific.

I dont know.. Maybe you have just picked all the wrong sellers? If your albums are arriving not as described, complain to the seller about it.. They will give you a refund. There are plenty of good record sellers on eBay. I dont buy many online, but id say 95% have been as described and clean.

Probably, I have pretty crappy luck... I'll see with the seller about a refund..

 

[Lazarus Long]

I dont buy second hand records of Ebay, only new and sealed,I have had only one bad experience on discogs and this happened last month.
Bad photo but this was described as NM/M-
View attachment 1353337
I wasnt best impressed,the seller had over 2000 positive feedbacks and not one negative,he got one off me.
I did think hard about doing that without contacting him first but thought sod it he needs to learn a lesson.
I dont sell online as its too much hassle,I know people who do and they always downgrade their description,Ive found that to be true in my purchases.
The seller got back to me,he was not happy,over a series of messages he questioned my eyesight,age and parentage,then he threatened to report me to Discogs.
I carnt say it bothered me,I enjoyed replying back to his insults.
Two points,if a seller describes the media condition as visibly inspected I will not buy that record,though when the description is that the record has been played for inspection purposes what equipment and stylus shape has the vendor used?That is always in the back of my mind.
Im not sure where in the NW of England you are but if you are anywhere near Todmorden there is a market on every Sunday,there is a double stall run by a father and son,Steve and Robin.
They are very honest and well priced,and they will do a deal without haggling.

So you taught him a lesson heh? It probably would have worked out better for both parties had you messaged him first. You dont know the reason it was misgraded.. Now you can justify it because the sellers response was a defensive attack, but it might not have been if you hadnt attacked him with negative feedback before giving him a chance to make it right. Negative feedback is a last resort!

 

[petemcfc]

What's the process you use to clean your records?


You don't grade dust, you look at the records to see if they are warped, have scratches and or light abrasions, the label around the spindle hole will give some info on how many plays. You then grade the cover as to ware and tear.

Not many record sellers are willing to wash the records they are selling. They would then need to have all new inner sleeves, and then seal the whole record in a outer sleeve to keep it clean in shipping.

Most will not sound grade at all because that takes a ton of time.

All good info,though what is happening in my area is that a few dealers are skimming over the records with baby wipes to make the surface look nice and squeeky clean,its the aroma that gives it away,

 

[Eastham]

I dont buy second hand records of Ebay, only new and sealed,I have had only one bad experience on discogs and this happened last month.
Bad photo but this was described as NM/M-
View attachment 1353337
I wasnt best impressed,the seller had over 2000 positive feedbacks and not one negative,he got one off me.
I did think hard about doing that without contacting him first but thought sod it he needs to learn a lesson.
I dont sell online as its too much hassle,I know people who do and they always downgrade their description,Ive found that to be true in my purchases.
The seller got back to me,he was not happy,over a series of messages he questioned my eyesight,age and parentage,then he threatened to report me to Discogs.
I carnt say it bothered me,I enjoyed replying back to his insults.
Two points,if a seller describes the media condition as visibly inspected I will not buy that record,though when the description is that the record has been played for inspection purposes what equipment and stylus shape has the vendor used?That is always in the back of my mind.
Im not sure where in the NW of England you are but if you are anywhere near Todmorden there is a market on every Sunday,there is a double stall run by a father and son,Steve and Robin.
They are very honest and well priced,and they will do a deal without haggling.

Some people can take things very personally and get quite mean, that's why I mostly avoid asking for refunds and the like, being kinda autistic I'm a bit non-confrontational lol... I'm a bit further down and to the left in Liverpool though if I'm ever up in the area I'll take a look, thanks!

 

[petemcfc]

So you taught him a lesson heh? It probably would have worked out better for both parties had you messaged him first. You dont know the reason it was misgraded.. Now you can justify it because the sellers response was a defensive attack, but it might not have been if you hadnt attacked him with negative feedback before giving him a chance to make it right. Negative feedback is a last resort!

As Ive said I did think hard about that,I wasnt bragging,and I didnt attack him.
Where did you get that from?
I simply gave a not as described.

 

[4-2-7]

I start with a dry brush cleaning with my carbon fiber brush, then if still bad I'll move onto a wet wash with my AudioTechnica "Sonic Broom" Works really well, if that don't do it I used some cleaning fluid on a goats hair brush and wash around the record then rinse with destilled water, last ditch attempt for really bad records, I use non fragrant dish soap with my goats hair brush, then rinse with destilled drying for both with a clean soft towel.


To be fair all they'd have to do is play the first middle and last track for a few seconds a time, a record could look pristine but if it's been touched by a broken stylus could sound horrific.

I think you should stop buying 40 year old used record until you get a good record cleaning system together. At the very least a Spin Clean setup. But I would recommend a Vacuum RCM, or a Ultrasonic cleaning setup. If you lived in the States I'd also tell you to become a subscriber so you can buy records from members here on the site.

You know there is a lot of you UK members, why don't you start a thread in Dollars and Sents and start networking together. Title it like UK Record Shopping. As a collective you all can share who is good in your area to get records from. Maybe a thread in the Regional Club forum, this way you all can get together and start networking locally, buying and trading with each other.

 

[petemcfc]

Some people can take things very personally and get quite mean, that's why I mostly avoid asking for refunds and the like, being kinda autistic I'm a bit non-confrontational lol... I'm a bit further down and to the left in Liverpool though if I'm ever up in the area I'll take a look, thanks!

Thats a good 50 miles off then.
If your from the Red part enjoy your short time at the top of the table.

 

[4-2-7]

Im not sure where in the NW of England you are but if you are anywhere near Todmorden there is a market on every Sunday,there is a double stall run by a father and son,Steve and Robin.
They are very honest and well priced,and they will do a deal without haggling.

See this is the networking you UK guys need to start a thread on, it will be good for everybody.

You know there is a lot of you UK members, why don't you start a thread in Dollars and Sents and start networking together. Title it like UK Record Shopping. As a collective you all can share who is good in your area to get records from. Maybe a thread in the Regional Club forum, this way you all can get together and start networking locally, buying and trading with each other.

 

[Hajidub]

I dont buy second hand records of Ebay, only new and sealed,I have had only one bad experience on discogs and this happened last month.
Bad photo but this was described as NM/M-
View attachment 1353337
I wasnt best impressed,the seller had over 2000 positive feedbacks and not one negative,he got one off me.
I did think hard about doing that without contacting him first but thought sod it he needs to learn a lesson.
I dont sell online as its too much hassle,I know people who do and they always downgrade their description,Ive found that to be true in my purchases.
The seller got back to me,he was not happy,over a series of messages he questioned my eyesight,age and parentage,then he threatened to report me to Discogs.
I carnt say it bothered me,I enjoyed replying back to his insults.
Two points,if a seller describes the media condition as visibly inspected I will not buy that record,though when the description is that the record has been played for inspection purposes what equipment and stylus shape has the vendor used?That is always in the back of my mind.
Im not sure where in the NW of England you are but if you are anywhere near Todmorden there is a market on every Sunday,there is a double stall run by a father and son,Steve and Robin.
They are very honest and well priced,and they will do a deal without haggling.

So basically you skirted Discogs rules and gave him a negative prior to giving him an opportunity to rectify the issue. Don’t worry he’ll get the feedback removed, which will mean your “teach him a lesson” theory is wasted.

 

[Eastham]

I think you should stop buying 40 year old used record until you get a good record cleaning system together. At the very least a Spin Clean setup. But I would recommend a Vacuum RCM, or a Ultrasonic cleaning setup. If you lived in the States I'd also tell you to become a subscriber so you can buy records from members here on the site.

You know there is a lot of you UK members, why don't you start a thread in Dollars and Sents and start networking together. Title it like UK Record Shopping. As a collective you all can share who is good in your area to get records from. Maybe a thread in the Regional Club forum, this way you all can get together and start networking locally, buying and trading with each other.

I should renew my subscribership tbh, just to support AK again. I've been looking around for used Okki Nokki and the like but no luck yet, not in my price range at least. I've been looking at some of those cheap ultrasonic cleaners from eBay and I think I may buy one, they've gotten cheap enough.

That's actually a brilliant idea.

Thats a good 50 miles off then.
If your from the Red part enjoy your short time at the top of the table.

Yep a little ways and I dunno about short time at the top...

 

[Wildcat]

Yeah, I quit buying used records myself--locally, I am getting at least a 60% reject rate on records that are just too worn to be of any use to me. You can't really see it visually but sure enough, get to the last third of a side and the groove burn is rearing its ugly head. I've had a few filthy records myself--they have a bit of dust in the grooves, but once cleaned (I do an ultrasonic bath followed by a rinse through the record vacuum), the scratches show up all that much better. I had a Lou Rawls Live! that was sadly too beaten to be of any use to me.

Now I have a stack of dozens of records that I don't have the heart to sell to anyone. Probably will use them as a trade-in, or save some for my kiddo when she gets into rekkids.

Over the past few weeks, I have placed four orders for sealed, new-old-stock records. A few are a little noisy, mostly from being stored for so long. But there is no wear, they are all flat, no scratches, and after a good cleaning they will play like new. Only one of those was a big disappointment, but, it was released on Polydor and they were not known to have the best pressing quality. (This one had some noise, and was also off-center.) The first-issue Police Synchronicity with the hype sticker and KC-600 vinyl, though...sweet! Just as nice as the copy I stupidly gave away when Sony promised "perfect sound forever" and failed colossally at it.

 

[4-2-7]

I should renew my subscribership tbh, just to support AK again.

Thanks for the support

I've been looking around for used Okki Nokki and the like but no luck yet, not in my price range at least.

I have one, and it's fine for a fast cleaning of one or two records

I've been looking at some of those cheap ultrasonic cleaners from eBay and I think I may buy one, they've gotten cheap enough.

I have one of these also, and it cleans 8 at a time, with a lot of records this is the way to go.

 

[Eastham]

Thanks for the support

I have one, and it's fine for a fast cleaning of one or two records


I have one of these also, and it cleans 8 at a time, with a lot of records this is the way to go.

Ultrasonic it is then, any suggestions on tank size

Yeah, I quit buying used records myself--locally, I am getting at least a 60% reject rate on records that are just too worn to be of any use to me. You can't really see it visually but sure enough, get to the last third of a side and the groove burn is rearing its ugly head. I've had a few filthy records myself--they have a bit of dust in the grooves, but once cleaned (I do an ultrasonic bath followed by a rinse through the record vacuum), the scratches show up all that much better. I had a Lou Rawls Live! that was sadly too beaten to be of any use to me.

Now I have a stack of dozens of records that I don't have the heart to sell to anyone. Probably will use them as a trade-in, or save some for my kiddo when she gets into rekkids.

Over the past few weeks, I have placed four orders for sealed, new-old-stock records. A few are a little noisy, mostly from being stored for so long. But there is no wear, they are all flat, no scratches, and after a good cleaning they will play like new. Only one of those was a big disappointment, but, it was released on Polydor and they were not known to have the best pressing quality. (This one had some noise, and was also off-center.) The first-issue Police Synchronicity with the hype sticker and KC-600 vinyl, though...sweet! Just as nice as the copy I stupidly gave away when Sony promised "perfect sound forever" and failed colossally at it.

That's the worst you think you've got a perfect record and then towards the end the vocals and high frrequencies start sounding scratchy and grainy. I don't mind CDs for post mid 80s music since it was all digitally mastered by then anyway but something about records just sounds better, notably the soundstage and bass.

 

[petemcfc]

So this is what happens,I work 5 hours on a Saturday at time and a half as its overtime,then use a good proportion of that money to buy a record that is nowhere near as described,the vendor has tried it on.
I will repeat for the third time,I thought hard about it,I went away from Discogs rules,because in dispute he would have refunded me,though as the OP has stated,he and maybe others would not have gone down that road,the vendor took a controlled risk.
Though it seems that I am in the wrong.

 

[4-2-7]

Ultrasonic it is then, any suggestions on tank size

I have hundreds of post in this thread, it's probably the longest and most informative on this topic. The funny thing is I ordered a setup just as this thread started, and learned a lot with hands on. Others followed and found cheaper ways to put their own cleaning system together. Please read though all of it and you'll learn a lot.

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/ultrasonic-cleaners-they-do-work.595742/