Speaker Shopping - one man's experience with High End models


I really don't want to sully this fine thread with back and forth, but I'll say this, and then shut up. After 10 minutes of considering posting this, I feel it is necessary, and that perhaps my opinion is shared by others.

AK's motto is "All Audio, No Attitude." Yes?? Yes.

I cannot fathom why you continue to get a free pass for outrageous claims, snarky asides, mile-wide generalizations, and outright rudeness.
What is most tragic about this is the knowledge you have. Just an ounce of humility, or simple manners, and perhaps we could all learn from you.

Years, dude. Years I have held my tongue at your behavior, which is NOT in the spirit of AK. I wonder how many people you've ran off with your posts.

If you can make the implication that most of the nice folk here have some sort of allergy to new gear, or are ignorant, or whatever it is you claimed, then I can make the claim that you hold the distinction as being the single most contentious person on these boards.

Not all who have vintage gear, or mid-fi gear, are afraid to see what the new stuff has for in store for us. Hell, I'm even considering selling those mammoth McIntosh's and trying some of this amazing stuff that the market has. What you said isn't a fact, it's an opinion, and one that, if presented differently, I might even somewhat agree with.

Congrats, Botty. You get to be the first person I place on my ignore list. Hate to do it, but it is better than letting my bp go higher than it already is.

My most sincere apologies for this aside on an otherwise wonderful, entertaining and stimulating thread.
 
I really don't want to sully this fine thread with back and forth, but I'll say this, and then shut up. After 10 minutes of considering posting this, I feel it is necessary, and that perhaps my opinion is shared by others.

AK's motto is "All Audio, No Attitude." Yes?? Yes.

I cannot fathom why you continue to get a free pass for outrageous claims, snarky asides, mile-wide generalizations, and outright rudeness.
What is most tragic about this is the knowledge you have. Just an ounce of humility, or simple manners, and perhaps we could all learn from you.

Years, dude. Years I have held my tongue at your behavior, which is NOT in the spirit of AK. I wonder how many people you've ran off with your posts.

If you can make the implication that most of the nice folk here have some sort of allergy to new gear, or are ignorant, or whatever it is you claimed, then I can make the claim that you hold the distinction as being the single most contentious person on these boards.

Not all who have vintage gear, or mid-fi gear, are afraid to see what the new stuff has for in store for us. Hell, I'm even considering selling those mammoth McIntosh's and trying some of this amazing stuff that the market has. What you said isn't a fact, it's an opinion, and one that, if presented differently, I might even somewhat agree with.

Congrats, Botty. You get to be the first person I place on my ignore list. Hate to do it, but it is better than letting my bp go higher than it already is.

My most sincere apologies for this aside on an otherwise wonderful, entertaining and stimulating thread.
Will this fit in my sig?
 
Aliens Ate My Buick was in constant rotation in my car systems BITD. Brilliant work that few even know exist.

In regards to the new speakers, congratulations! While I have not heard that particular speaker, I am fond of Revels generally speaking.

+1 on the Thomas Dolby. "Pulp Culture" was my pet demo track off of that one.

I've been trying to find a good replacement vinyl copy of that for a while. Mine got left in the sun too long... :(

Regards,
Gordon.
 
So...I've been into this vintage audio hobby for what seems like forever, but in reality is somewhere around 35 years. I've bought, sold and horse traded my way up to a fairly nice system and I'm very happy with it. I reached really far 10 years ago to afford a pair of JBL 250Ti's and have been slowly bringing my system up to their level ever since. And lately I have been wondering "what would a modern 250 sound like" ? So I set out to find what a current large floor standing speaker sounds like in 2017.

Previous visits to my local shop (Natural Sound) had showed me that there wasn't much under 10k that was even comparable to what I am used to (maybe in one particular area, but not overall) so I set that as my baseline and worked my way up the speaker ladder.

What follows are my observations about several modern speakers, paired with different components. I played a variety of my "go to's" for system evaluation (mostly rock and electric jazz). Listening levels were quiet to moderately loud.

Focal Sopra N3, Mcintosh C47, McIntosh MC452, Luxman SACD

Straight away I thought the bass was missing, and that impression never left during my listening session. The high end was sublime (right up there with the best I've heard, below) and extremely smooth/non-fatiguing. I really liked the imaging too as that mid directed down at you somehow paints a very 3D soundscape. But try as I might, I felt these missed the "impact" I was looking for.

Out comes the hand truck and a few minutes later...

Wilson Sabrina, same electronics as above

Well now, this little 8" 3-way is punching WAY above it's size class! It's got the bass impact I was looking for and a whole lot more. The imaging is spectacular and the speaker seems to just disappear. I loved it a lot for the first 15 minutes. Then I started to miss the smoother high end of the Focal. As time went on I just couldn't get passed the "jazzed up" sound. It really does grab you, but in the end I thought it was trying a bit too hard.

Revel Ultima Salon 2, Mcintosh C2500, MC275, MT10, MCD550

OK now...how much will you give me for my car in trade, right now ? Oh, only that much eh...bummer. This folks, is what I was - and will be forever now - looking for. I should have expected a large 4-way from the Harman corporation would be my ultimate destination after all. All the reviews I have found later about this speaker are positively gushing, and why shouldn't they be ? It has it all - effortless but smooth highs, liquid mid-range and powerful lightning-fast bass. I just didn't want to stop listening. I could get details I've never heard on my 250's with no fatigue or apparent downside (except for a little loss of sensitivity).

I left the store happy (to have found my grail) and sad (to know that until kids are done with college, ain't no way momma is gonna be cool with that kind of purchase).

With a few hours of daylight left, I headed to an even higher-end store closer to Boston. That'll be part II....


jblnut
Hi jbl nut,
I had the same experience. I had the 250ti for many years on a mark Levinson 383 with siltech cables. A serious good sounding combination.
I have been looking for years for better sounding speakers but could not find them. The ti-250 is a realy good speaker.
At this point in my life I can afford a serious upgrade. I tested al the famous speakers to 30.000$ but the 250 still sounded better.
Even top notch Revel (salons etc) bw 803/802 sounded not as good when hearing them side by side.
The dealer himself was disappointed and admitted the difference and took them home again.
Then I upgraded to mark Levinson 585 which did magic. After changing Levinson 390s to the ml519 you would not believe what is coming out of the old jbl ti250.
It is magic. Very difficult to beat that.
But.....

On a rainy day I went to a dealer who had Levinson 585 combined with the 519 streamer/cd player and a set of Wilson audio Yvette.
Within a minute I realized this is the sound I am looking for since many years.
This was a league the old jbl 250 can not beat.
The dealer made me an excelent price and I bought them within minutes.
Now I am waiting for months on the delivery of the yvettes spending a lot of time with my beloved and often misunderstood JBL to 250. I had them for 14 years and enjoyed every minute of it.
Damn I gonna miss them......
 
Having recently both moved into a music space 1/4 the size of my previous room and buying new speakers
to match, curious what size listening area are you working with?

Oh and congrats on your new speakers, wish I had the opportunity to sit
and listen to them.
 
My listening room is about 12x18 that opens on the far/long end into a 12x12 dining room. So with the doors open it's 12x30 for some really low bass notes :).

Wish I had more room, but it works pretty well actually.

jblnut
 
My listening room is about 12x18 that opens on the far/long end into a 12x12 dining room. So with the doors open it's 12x30 for some really low bass notes :).

Wish I had more room, but it works pretty well actually.

jblnut

Haha, as I read through this thread, room size was the burning question I was going to ask when I got to the end because I know those are large speakers. Sure enough I get to the last post and you answered it.

Do you use a parametric EQ or any other method to deal with the room resonances?
 
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Mostly it's a combination of furniture and speaker placement at this stage. Some GIK panels will get purchased at some point though to damp the highs a tad. There is a natural bass suck out at the couch position so at least I don't have to deal with a lot of 100hz area boom.

Been playing lots of music and getting to know the Salons. I did buy a nice old Pro Yamaha 31 Band EQ but I don't need to use it often. I have found sonic bliss again and I don't want to over think it and ruin the listening enjoyment.

jblnut
 
I really don't want to sully this fine thread with back and forth, but I'll say this, and then shut up. After 10 minutes of considering posting this, I feel it is necessary, and that perhaps my opinion is shared by others.

Humm, might this be the Post of the Year?

Onward Tim.
 
If I ever go the route of having a dedicated listening space again, I will go the pro route also. Though in this case, I would do it from the very beginning of the project. Design the room first and build it out with each selected component in mind. Plan speaker and listening placement. Plan gear and media storage. That would be a dream setup and is my empty nest goal.

As another thought. Do you have a Music school or audio engineer school near you? Perhaps you can reach out to them and see if they have any recommendations or referrals? Or someone with sound engineering experience? Someone has to be designing sound studios. Perhaps you can leverage some pro know how into your current system and room. Especially if you are willing to compensate someone for their knowledge.
 
Humm, might this be the Post of the Year?

Onward Tim.

To be truthful, I kinda regretted what I posted. My dear old Dad always said "You don't gain ground by slinging mud." However, my man jblnut had plunked down 22K I think it was for a positively dreamy set of Salons and was so happy talking about them, and we were enjoying his speakers by proxy. True, I never heard Salon before, but hey, jblnut was telling me all about them, and I can trust his words, as he knows good stuff.

I didn't feel the thread needed those opinions on the speaker biases of others stuck in like a fart in a Diving helmet.

And I never actually blocked Botty. Can't. He's got his opinions, most of them are rooted in truth and a heavy dose of experience.



Now, who is up to hear more about these rare-air speakers?? God, if they sound as good as they look...
 
This an interesting read, especially for a man who was formerly afflicted with High-end-itis ...
but it just reinforced my determination to never enter a high end audio salon again ...
They will wound your pockets !!!!
Especially now that I actually have it to spend ....
I remain the scrounge that I've become... haunting the bottom in search of 90% of the sound for 5% of the price !!

Listen to the music and .. Enjoy those speakers !!
 
Thanks akustic! I can say without a doubt that there extremely amazing speakers out there at nearly every price point. Some local members have dazzled me recently with vintage stand outs like the ADS M30 and the big IMF monitors. Properly setup and powered in a treated space, they are both a tough act to follow.

But, neither can do everything these big Revels can do. Is the huge price difference worth getting that last few percent? For me yes. And remember someone has to buy all of this stuff new that we cherish and chase for decades later.

No major audio news here but I will update this thread when/if I get the missus on board with some room treatments.

jblnut
 
Room treatments and fine tuning my DSP is something I am thinking about for this summer. Look forward to seeing your additions.
 
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