My steuerpimpel is shot, big deal.

[chris_f]

There's a German seller on eBay, I bought a small pack from him, and use them on duals. They sure do rely on that little plastic piece!

I have a question: What is the appeal of Dual turntables? I have repaired three of them, and spent a bit of time listening to them. I haven't caught on to the appeal yet though. Is it the German aesthetic? Do they sound way better than they should? My only contact with them has been to repair them, and then play some test records. The comment that someone would prefer a dual to a technics sl-1200 has me genuinely confused, what is it about the Dual I am overlooking?

In tip top shape a good Dual with a good cartridge and stylus sounds way better than it should. Certainly better than an SL-1200 in my opinion. Others will disagree, and I am not a Technics hater, but the appeal of the SL-1200 is it being a good sounding, rock solid table. They arent in my opinion "audiophile" though with a good cartridge they do sound quite good. There is also the mechanical beauty of a functioning piece of German engineering.

 

[olddude55]

In tip top shape a good Dual with a good cartridge and stylus sounds way better than it should. Certainly better than an SL-1200 in my opinion. Others will disagree, and I am not a Technics hater, but the appeal of the SL-1200 is it being a good sounding, rock solid table. They arent in my opinion "audiophile" though with a good cartridge they do sound quite good. There is also the mechanical beauty of a functioning piece of German engineering.

When it functions, that is. I don't recommend Dual turntables to noobs. I love my 1219 but I can't get it to start automatically and yesterday morning the speed selector lever took a powder (mine is an older 1219 with metal levers, but the splines inside the speed selector lever are stripped). I got it fixed after a fashion, but I can tell it's going to be problematic. Wouldn't inflict something like this on an FNG.
But while they're mechanically complex, they're electronically simple. I'm a better mechanic than electrician, so they appeal to me on that level, at least the idler drive decks do.

 

[maxhifi]

When it functions, that is. I don't recommend Dual turntables to noobs. I love my 1219 but I can't get it to start automatically and yesterday morning the speed selector lever took a powder (mine is an older 1219 with metal levers, but the splines inside the speed selector lever are stripped). I got it fixed after a fashion, but I can tell it's going to be problematic. Wouldn't inflict something like this on an FNG.
But while they're mechanically complex, they're electronically simple. I'm a better mechanic than electrician, so they appeal to me on that level, at least the idler drive decks do.

From a mechanical perspective, I find the Dual mechanism to be delicate, and a bit fiddly. The ones I have worked on typically suffer from dried up grease, the bad steurpimpel, and a misadjusted power switch. Nothing outrageous to get in order. Frankly so far as changers go, I think a Garrard type A for example has a more robust mechanism, but the Dual no doubt has a way better tonearm and more sensitive trip. If you want to make it work automatically, it needs an overhaul, which isn't as time consuming as you may imagine, you just need to be patient and thorough. The manual is also useful info.

I'm no stranger to idler drives, I've had a Thorens 124 since the early 1990s, and I certainly have been thrilled with how it functions and sounds. I'm just curious what makes a Dual stand out, they do seem to have a very loyal following. Next time I get one to repair, I will put a good cartridge on it and take it more seriously. I am really becoming curious what all the fuss is about them. My opinion thus far has been hey the Germans made a changer which is better than say a Garrard or BSR, but it's no match for a Thorens or AR, or even good Pioneer.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Dual owners also suffer mechanical complexity, along with the superb performance. And I am a many times Dual owner and fanatic of Duals.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

From a mechanical perspective, I find the Dual mechanism to be delicate, and a bit fiddly. The ones I have worked on typically suffer from dried up grease, the bad steurpimpel, and a misadjusted power switch. Nothing outrageous to get in order. Frankly so far as changers go, I think a Garrard type A for example has a more robust mechanism, but the Dual no doubt has a way better tonearm and more sensitive trip. If you want to make it work automatically, it needs an overhaul, which isn't as time consuming as you may imagine, you just need to be patient and thorough. The manual is also useful info.

I'm no stranger to idler drives, I've had a Thorens 124 since the early 1990s, and I certainly have been thrilled with how it functions and sounds. I'm just curious what makes a Dual stand out, they do seem to have a very loyal following. Next time I get one to repair, I will put a good cartridge on it and take it more seriously. I am really becoming curious what all the fuss is about them. My opinion thus far has been hey the Germans made a changer which is better than say a Garrard or BSR, but it's no match for a Thorens or AR, or even good Pioneer.

Dual stood out because they were the first to make a truly high performance record changer which took high compliance cartridges for the era. This was the famous 1964 1009, the first changer both housewife and husband could agree on (the performance he wanted, the automation she wanted)

 

[sKiZo]

Maybe I missed it, but what exactly does a sewer pimple do??

(dang spell checker) <G>

 

[KentTeffeteller]

I would never trade my Dual for a Technics. If I did it wouldnt be for a 1200. Yeah its built better but they all pretty much sound the same.

I need both. The Technics for what it does best, the Dual 1019 when I want to stack a few (or a nice 1200 family Dual or ELAC/Miracord. One for me can't do all. And I need one of those two turntables to take a standard easily had headshell. I like owning a great manual turntable and a great automatic.

 

[maxhifi]

Maybe I missed it, but what exactly does a sewer pimple do??

(dang spell checker) <G>

It's a little plastic cap, which acts like a clutch between a friction plate, and the bottom of a metal shaft attached to the bottom of the tonarm. Friction between the pimpel, and the plate is what allows the tonearm to move automatically. It's also what prevents damage to the mechanism, if you happen to grab the tonearm when it's moving - the pimpel just slides on the plate.

When it goes bad, or missing, the arm stops moving automatically. The first Dual I worked on proved very confusing to troubleshoot on account of this. Now it's the first thing I check when I have a malfunctioning Dual on my bench. Moral of story, if your Dual's arm isn't moving properly, check your pimpel. If this turntable was made in an English speaking country, it would have a much less mysterious name, something like rubber bumper.

 

[maxhifi]

I need both. The Technics for what it does best, the Dual 1019 when I want to stack a few (or a nice 1200 family Dual or ELAC/Miracord. One for me can't do all. And I need one of those two turntables to take a standard easily had headshell. I like owning a great manual turntable and a great automatic.

Ahh - I'm in the same boat, but my "automatic", is a Sansui which plays both sides of a record, and then shuts off. I prefer that to hearing half a record, then half another record, etc.

 

[sKiZo]

It's a little plastic cap, which acts like a clutch between a friction plate, and the bottom of a metal shaft attached to the bottom of the tonarm. Friction between the pimpel, and the plate is what allows the tonearm to move automatically.

Thanx for that!

Certainly a complex system, but I think my Mitsu beats it in that regard. Arm movement is completely isolated from the main table workings, using lights and sensors and masking disks (oh, my) to sense position and control movement ...

Ahh - I'm in the same boat, but my "automatic", is a Sansui which plays both sides of a record, and then shuts off. I prefer that to hearing half a record, then half another record, etc.

Unless you're dealing with an older album set that has sides set up to play sequentially on a changer ...

 

[W9TR]

Tonight my Dual 601 started acting up......

.......Or I could just replace a small plastic peace. AKA the steuerpimpel.


....yes. We Dual owners are a special breed.

Well just thank god that your gummimuffins aren’t dried out and cracked!

 

[sKiZo]

Well just thank god that your gummimuffins aren’t dried out and cracked!

Wasn't aware that could happen. My girlfriend wants to get gummimuffin implants ... think I should warn her?

 

[maxhifi]

Thanx for that!

Certainly a complex system, but I think my Mitsu beats it in that regard. Arm movement is completely isolated from the main table workings, using lights and sensors and masking disks (oh, my) to sense position and control movement ...

Unless you're dealing with an older album set that has sides set up to play sequentially on a changer ...

The same is true of the Dual, the pimpel just floats in mid air, until the end of the record. The arm is free to move until the end of the record. Then the friction plate comes up and touches it, and moves the arm. What you're talking about though, is technical progress - no doubt the photocell arrangement is a more accurate and better trip than what came earlier. Gotta give people a reason to buy new things, right?

I would take an electronic position based trip system hands down over a velocity trip. The funny thing is, not all photocell and mask systems are actually position based. The setup Luxman used in some of their tables, like the PD-277 is a velocity trip using a photocell. Why they did it that way is beyond me, I much prefer a position based trip which is more repeatable and works with every single record, instead of relying on the fast movement of the lead out groove.

 

[sKiZo]

Ida know - sounds like the Dual arrangement is a simple fix anyway. A couple of the wheat grain lights (not THAT advanced, eh) on the arm mechanism burned out. I went in and replaced them all, but the arm leadin and leadout wasn't right. Come to find out, the new bulbs had different color and lumen ratings and weren't giving the sensors the light they wanted to see for proper placement. No adjustments for that, so I cobbled in some spacers and adjusted the light mask to compensate. Hey - it worked!

But enough about Mitsu ... back to the Pimpels!

 

[olddude55]

From a mechanical perspective, I find the Dual mechanism to be delicate, and a bit fiddly. The ones I have worked on typically suffer from dried up grease, the bad steurpimpel, and a misadjusted power switch. Nothing outrageous to get in order. Frankly so far as changers go, I think a Garrard type A for example has a more robust mechanism, but the Dual no doubt has a way better tonearm and more sensitive trip. If you want to make it work automatically, it needs an overhaul, which isn't as time consuming as you may imagine, you just need to be patient and thorough. The manual is also useful info.

I'm no stranger to idler drives, I've had a Thorens 124 since the early 1990s, and I certainly have been thrilled with how it functions and sounds. I'm just curious what makes a Dual stand out, they do seem to have a very loyal following. Next time I get one to repair, I will put a good cartridge on it and take it more seriously. I am really becoming curious what all the fuss is about them. My opinion thus far has been hey the Germans made a changer which is better than say a Garrard or BSR, but it's no match for a Thorens or AR, or even good Pioneer.

It works fine if I start it manually and I don't stack records. I don't really need to worry about the start/stop lever functions.
But the speed control is a problem. I have a lot of LPs reissued as 45 rpm doubles and I can't have the speed control breaking every time I use it. I glued it together yesterday with Locktite super glue but I don't think it's going to hold. Might need JB Weld.
Checked Ebay for a used replacement, nada. Got the PN, searched Dual Parts.com, again zilch. What I need is a complete but non working 1219 for parts.

 

[maxhifi]

It works fine if I start it manually and I don't stack records. I don't really need to worry about the start/stop lever functions.
But the speed control is a problem. I have a lot of LPs reissued as 45 rpm doubles and I can't have the speed control breaking every time I use it. I glued it together yesterday with Locktite super glue but I don't think it's going to hold. Might need JB Weld.
Checked Ebay for a used replacement, nada. Got the PN, searched Dual Parts.com, again zilch. What I need is a complete but non working 1219 for parts.

If the speed selector actually broke, it most likely means your mechanism badly needs old grease flushed out, and new lubrication. The speed selector should not require much force to operate, especially not so much force that it would actually break. The gummed up old grease hardens and turns almost to glue, which puts way too much stress on everything else. Isopropyl alcohol can clean it up, then a bit of new grease and you should be good to go.

 

[stereofisher]

When it functions, that is. I don't recommend Dual turntables to noobs. I love my 1219 but I can't get it to start automatically and yesterday morning the speed selector lever took a powder (mine is an older 1219 with metal levers, but the splines inside the speed selector lever are stripped). I got it fixed after a fashion, but I can tell it's going to be problematic. Wouldn't inflict something like this on an FNG.
But while they're mechanically complex, they're electronically simple. I'm a better mechanic than electrician, so they appeal to me on that level, at least the idler drive decks do.

Me too. Don’t like the electronics on many tables. Worked on a Phillips 212. Loaded with electronics. Just reduced my 1219s from 4 to three. Have owned many Duals. Decided I like the 1219 the best. Sending one to Florida for an Aker who lives in Costa Rica. This leaves me with three. One on each system. They really sound good. My latest 1219 was bought overseas. Has the Dual built base and dust cover. It’s on my shop Marantz. Has a Pickering XV15 cart. Was listiening to it last night. Bought it as it’s an early 1219. Has a new steer-implementing. Was working, now auto start in finicky. Shutoff work which is more important as I sometimes walk away form it. Mint. Have the later 1219 in the bedroom. Played the 1812 Overaturen on it this morning. This one has a Shure M55/Jico stylus. It too sounds great.

Funny how turntables sound different. Have a Garrard Zero 100 next to the latest 1219. Got the Zero because it’s different. Has a M55 Shure. Doesn’t sound as good.

The OPs 601 is the easiest one to do a stuerpimple on. Had one for awhile. Nice sounding table.

Eric

 

[stereofisher]

It works fine if I start it manually and I don't stack records. I don't really need to worry about the start/stop lever functions.
But the speed control is a problem. I have a lot of LPs reissued as 45 rpm doubles and I can't have the speed control breaking every time I use it. I glued it together yesterday with Locktite super glue but I don't think it's going to hold. Might need JB Weld.
Checked Ebay for a used replacement, nada. Got the PN, searched Dual Parts.com, again zilch. What I need is a complete but non working 1219 for parts.

PM me. They are rare.

Eric

 

[chris_f]

It works fine if I start it manually and I don't stack records. I don't really need to worry about the start/stop lever functions.
But the speed control is a problem. I have a lot of LPs reissued as 45 rpm doubles and I can't have the speed control breaking every time I use it. I glued it together yesterday with Locktite super glue but I don't think it's going to hold. Might need JB Weld.
Checked Ebay for a used replacement, nada. Got the PN, searched Dual Parts.com, again zilch. What I need is a complete but non working 1219 for parts.

https://organdonorparts.com/Dual-1219-Turntable-INVP495_c658.htm

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pats-Audio...634840?hash=item43dd2eb618:g:JoMAAOSwh1pZ-0G3

 

[olddude55]

If the speed selector actually broke, it most likely means your mechanism badly needs old grease flushed out, and new lubrication. The speed selector should not require much force to operate, especially not so much force that it would actually break. The gummed up old grease hardens and turns almost to glue, which puts way too much stress on everything else. Isopropyl alcohol can clean it up, then a bit of new grease and you should be good to go.

The speed selector itself is fine and working perfectly. Cleaned and regreased by me.
My theory is that some previous owner forced the lever when the grease was frozen and stripped most of the splines away. I finished the job yesterday. Didn't take much pressure to do it.