New DIY record cleaning fluid...

[Andyman]

It's certainly worth a try on some beyond help recording.

But I would certainly rinse once, if not twice with distilled water to dilute and remove any soluble materials left behind. And two rinses are better than one larger one as the second rinse removes a huge proportion of any material left behind on the first one. If one rinse gets 99% gone, the second gets 99% of the 1% left behind for 99.99% gone. Trust a degreed analytical chemist on this...

 

[savatage1973]

It is generally a good idea (regardless of what "potion" you use for cleaning solution) to do a final rinse (or two) with distilled water. Gets rid of any residual "crud" loosened up by the cleaning solution, and washes away the actual cleaning solution, which depending on what you use, can leave a residue itself.

 

[T68]

Stupid question maybe, but what is the best practice when it comes to rinsing away the cleaning solution with distilled water?
Do you pour or spray it on. Dunk? Use a brush or pad? Should the lp self dry or use cloth? Vacuum?
When I pour on distilled water on the lp its hard to get it to flush over the entire surface, obviously missing parts of the lp.
Thanks for any advice!

 

[WaynerN]

I don't use any distilled water to rinse. That is kind of over the top in my books unless your drinking water if so full of iron (and other stuff), then I can understand the use. My town features "soft" water, part of a public "welfare" program to aid a couple of industries in town that used millions of gallons of water as part of their manufacturing process. So for me, tap water is just fine.

 

[T68]

Thanks for replying!
Our town is known for good water quality (soft) and has won prices for it too. So maybe I can skip the distilled.
Then I also understand that rinse under the tap should work. Not having too worry about consumption so much as with bought distilled water.

 

[illinoisteve]

My current home-brew D4 solution consists of a gallon of distilled water with a few drops, maybe about 6, of Dawn detergent in it to reduce the water's surface tension. I've stopped using alcohol so I don't have to worry about accidentally using alcohol on my 78rpm lacquers. When I used alcohol, I just put a bottle of drug store isopropl in a gallon jug, and then filled the jug the rest of the way with distilled water, and added the detergent drops. I have small containers, old D4 bottles and others, into which I decant the solution into for use at the turntable.

I wouldn't hesitate to try grocery store white vinegar, which is always labeled "Distilled White Vinegar" as a component of a record cleaner. I might first try using a little less vinegar than WayneR uses, if I were worried. I might also first try it on some more marginal members of my record collection, that could only be helped by vinegar. But after initial experiments, if I saw/heard no problems, I might be less conservative in my testing of a vinegar D4 replacement formula.

I realize that chemistry experts might have something to say about whether some of these additives could possibly harm record vinyl, but I would like to add:
1) Distilled vinegar is not toxic to humans, and beverages like Switchel were made from vinegar.
2) Isopropl Alcohol is toxic to humans if consumed internally.
3) A tiny drop of Ethylene Glycol will kill your dog. Be careful using that crap anywhere around your household.

 

[Andyman]

Our water here is rock hard; there's always spots on my faucets after the drips evaporate, so distilled water is prudent, especially if you towel and air dry and don't vacuum.

 

[homebrew]

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[homebrew]

Good grief! Ask an old-world, hands-on, enologist. WaynerN, you are on the wrong track but the good thing is that you are going the right direction.

Vinegar is the natural extension of wine. Wine is hard to make but vinegar is so easy. The hard part is stopping vinegar from being made. Does vinegar help records? Yes. But not the way you think.

Wine is made from a fermentation process. Yeast munches sugars and grape skins are their vitamins. For what it is worth: 18° brix makes a safe wine with 10% alcohol. Yeasts eat and pee out alcohol. Unless unnaturally stopped, a “stuck fermentation,” ALL SUGARS ARE CONSUMED.

Normally, we stop at wine. We bottle it without oxygen and add a very small amount of sodium or potassium bisulfate to stop any growth. But sometimes we let it go wild.

Anything with alcohol in it, nix the sulfates, when exposed to air wine naturally picks up airborne acetobacter bacteria. Or simply add some vinegar to wine to hasten the process. It is a triad: with acetobacter, oxygen, and alcohol, we soon get vinegar. Miss one or add a too much sulfate and there is no vinegar.

Don’t believe? Easy to test. Go leave an open bottle of wine out for a week then take a large swig of it and gag. If you are not that brave then make oil & vinegar dressing.

About our records.

White vinegar with a potent 5% concentration has a pH of around 2.4. The pH of dishwater soaps hover around 9.0 to 10.0. The balance point, neutral, is pH 7.0. With equal mixes, soaps are neutralized and we end up with a weak vinegar solution that tastes ghastly. The way audiophiles make their solution; adding vinegar in your proportion means no soap and a lot of vinegar.

BTW, pH only applies to aqueous solutions, so pure alcohol has no pH.

But the vinegar does have desirable attributes. Used to clean hard and synthetic materials like vinyl. The vinegar has positive ions. The ions securely bonds with negative ion vinyl. End result: vinegar cleans, strengthens vinyl, and the excess positive charge actually pushes away the positive charged airborne dust. We want that.

Your vinegar proportion is strong. It is okay but wasteful and there are better ways but this does work.

People consume too much alcohol. Alcohol in our beloved standard DIY record cleaning solution, having no pH which is the fancy way of saying it has no cleaning properties, is more of a soul-satisfying surfactant even when used in excess. Efficiently, we want it in our grooves, not all over the record. It is okay but wasteful.

Bottom-line: your vinegar additive does have helpful uses but not the way you expect.

Two ways cleaning gets done. One is chemicals that have a pH. Toilet bowl cleaners are generally acidic (below about 7), all purpose cleaners have a medium range (8-10)pH, and degreasers can be upwards of 13. There's another way to clean that doesn't always have a pH. They're called solvents. They clean by dissolving and emulsifying soil. Alcohol (ethanol) is one such solvent. It has a pH of approx. 7, so it's neutral., It cleans by dissolving the offending dirt, instead of neutralizing it like an acidic or alkaline product would do. Solvents are effective against oil, grease, adhesive residue. Since records get fingerprints or other oil based soils on their surfaces, alcohol is pretty effective. Add to the alcohol: water (works as a carrier) and some form of detergent for wetting and to help hold the soil in suspension so it can be removed mechanically either by wiping with a cloth or by vacuum. An alcohol solution has the additional benefit of evaporating fairly quickly so the surface cleaned dries faster. Rinsing with distilled water followed by wiping or better yet vacuuming, should result in records that are pretty clean.

 

[MisterDK]

Our water here is rock hard; there's always spots on my faucets after the drips evaporate, so distilled water is prudent, especially if you towel and air dry and don't vacuum.

Water here is the same - all from local mountain wells. We shower in it and wash dishes with it, but I won’t drink it. I don’t even give it to my dogs. Record cleaner is always mixed up with distilled - it’s only a buck a bottle (gallon).
My only concern with using vinegar is about a potential corrosive reaction inside my Nitty Gritty cleaner. It may not cause a problem at all, but I really like my main Nitty Gritty (an old 3.5Fi model), and don’t want to kill it.

 

[bobins08]

It's certainly worth a try on some beyond help recording.

But I would certainly rinse once, if not twice with distilled water to dilute and remove any soluble materials left behind. And two rinses are better than one larger one as the second rinse removes a huge proportion of any material left behind on the first one. If one rinse gets 99% gone, the second gets 99% of the 1% left behind for 99.99% gone. Trust a degreed analytical chemist on this...

Your point is spot on.

I always rinse my records with distilled two times. I figured I’m taking 90% to 99% that way but who really knows. To me its best to just used tried and true solutions. Professionally designed cleaners are not expensive compared to the cost of my collection. The real benefit is the vacuum. Get the debris loose and suck it off, more passes thru the RCM is best. One pass with cleaner, two rinses with distilled. Three passes with the RCM for a record that is new or used and in good shape.