How to do A/B testing with speakers of different sensitivities?

[hnash53]

I'm doing some A/B tests between speakers using a speaker switch.

The speaker pairs I'm comparing are about 8 dB different in their sensitivities.

Obviously the more sensitive ones are louder than the less sensitive ones are... and hence it's not a fair comparison. Louder playing speakers (up to a point of course) typically sound "better."

Is there a way to either attenuate/elevate the speaker outputs so that during the A/B testing, the volumes are nearly the same (or within 3 dB)? Perhaps something I can insert in the A or B " + " wires?

Thanks.

 

[spark1]

Never mind.

 

[musichal]

Using a speaker switch with separate attenuation controls per pair can work pretty well. Niles was the go-to brand way back when I sold home installations.

However, I've not found A/B speaker comparison very useful. Spending a week with one pair, then another week with the other pair allows me more conclusive results about which speaker I prefer.

 

[toddalin]

Here you go. My own personal design and a portion of my A/B/X switcher, that I also designed. BTW, I find this a very useful tool.

My A/B/X circuitry. This includes both line and/or speaker level matching and uses a $5 A/B/C/D remote unit.

 

[hnash53]

Using a speaker switch with separate attenuation controls per pair can work pretty well. Niles was the go-to brand way back when I sold home installations.

However, I've not found A/B speaker comparison very useful. Spending a week with one pair, then another week with the other pair allows me more conclusive results about which speaker I prefer.

At least for me and my ears, immediate direct comparison has worked well for me.

I guess there's no easy way to do this... I can't build Todd's design... and from his design, I doubt that it's very cheap to buy.

Thanks for the comments.

 

[Pete B]

Assuming that you already have a switch for A/B at speaker level, you'd want to
add a switch either in the tape monitor loop or between the pre and power amp
that adds a volume pot in the path. Full to the less sensitive speaker, volume down
to the more sensitive. You could use relays controlled by the speaker switch.
I actually have this setup and will probably bring it to Frankenfest in MA this month.

You don't want to use L-Pads or resistors in the speaker connection since they will
grossly alter the damping factor.

 

[62caddy]

This would be the ultimate.

 

[opnly bafld]

However, I've not found A/B speaker comparison very useful. Spending a week with one pair, then another week with the other pair allows me more conclusive results about which speaker I prefer.

 

[E-Stat]

If you’ve got a smart phone, you can download free SPL meter apps. Download or use a 1 kHz test tone from sources like the Stereophile Test CDs.

Establish a reasonable listening level and determine where the gain control needs to be with each for the same output.

I’m not a fan of switch boxes.

 

[hnash53]

What about something like this?

http://kantack.com/surround/surround2.html

Under Diagram #1, he suggests inserting a potentiometer in the + speaker strand.

Would using a potentimeter in my situation work?

 

[toddalin]

At least for me and my ears, immediate direct comparison has worked well for me.

I guess there's no easy way to do this... I can't build Todd's design... and from his design, I doubt that it's very cheap to buy.

Thanks for the comments.

Yes, cheap to build at maybe $20 for surplus circuit parts (assuming you use regular and not fancy speaker lugs, etc.), but may be expensive to buy if you can even find such a thing.

There is nothing complicated about the first circuit, and if you have any soldering skills, it is easy to construct and would make a nice first project.

The remotes are cheap through Banggoods (or on the bay) and all other parts can be had on the bay, basically from China or surplus for very little $$$.

 

[TomBig58]

I find A/B comparison very useful when comparing similar speakers. Final determination is done by extended listening but my first impressions are rarely overturned as far as "which I like better". Room placement makes simple A/B a bit more complicated for larger speakers. Speaker switches with attenuators get the job done for me as to the OP's original question.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p...D - Segment - Core - New_Desktop - Ad Group 2

I would love to build Todd's design. It is simple, covers all the bases, and best it has a remote so you don't need to leave the chair.

 

[hnash53]

I find A/B comparison very useful when comparing similar speakers. Final determination is done by extended listening but my first impressions are rarely overturned as far as "which I like better". Room placement makes simple A/B a bit more complicated for larger speakers. Speaker switches with attenuators get the job done for me as to the OP's original question.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=8231&msclkid=332f5c29ba5c13ec8a5100a9e3cd27c1&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=OD - Segment - Core - New_Desktop&utm_term=4580565447218080&utm_content=OD - Segment - Core - New_Desktop - Ad Group 2

I would love to build Todd's design. It is simple, covers all the bases, and best it has a remote so you don't need to leave the chair.

Thanks for that monoprice link. I have purchased something very similar to this but it's a Niles speaker switch... $35.

 

[Mr Owl]

However, I've not found A/B speaker comparison very useful. Spending a week with one pair, then another week with the other pair allows me more conclusive results about which speaker I prefer.

I haven't either. I've found all straight A/B comparing does is make me dislike a pair more than I should. The louder / clearer pair always wins in any A/B.

I've since learned to ignore the initial impressions of any A/B, and spend more time with them like you mention above. I still use my A/B switch, but it's because different pairs do different things well, and it's nice to be able to switch out.

 

[hnash53]

I haven't either. I've found all straight A/B comparing does is make me dislike a pair more than I should. The louder / clearer pair always wins in any A/B.

I've since learned to ignore the initial impressions of any A/B, and spend more time with them like you mention above. I still use my A/B switch, but it's because different pairs do different things well, and it's nice to be able to switch out.

About a year or more ago, I got into open baffle speakers. When I heard them I immediately installed them as my mains & surrounds/rears. After a few months, I began to doubt my ears. So I set up my A/B testing again. Adjusting for volume/spl as best I could, the OB speakers were much clearer than my Polks. I repeated this again a couple of months ago... same result.

I've found that listening to a set of speakers for a week or so, then switching to a different pair... after a week, I end up liking how each sounds... or at worst, I can't really complain about either's sound... other than a bit different... but not better or worse.

The A/B comparison works for me. I do have a speaker switch coming that has independent volume/spl controls for each pair of speakers. That should better level the playing field when I test speakers.

 

[toddalin]

You don't want to use L-Pads or resistors in the speaker connection since they will
grossly alter the damping factor.

They do alter the sound, but not "grossly." To my ear, there is a notable "softening" in the bass (i.e., it looses some "edge/impact/grip") when the L-pads of the A/B/X switcher are used as opposed to the pots to control volume. If I use the L-pads in comparison, I switch them into both channels even if the lesser volume speaker does not need attenuation.

But they are nice for running two sets of speakers that have different sensitivies simultaneously to level them out. The A/B/X switcher is on my "B speaker" output, so I just put the louder speakers on B speaker and can turn them down while simultaneously running the A-speakers if desired.

 

[quiet]

I do a lot of switching and think switch boxes "with" volume controls are bad news for comparing speakers.
Here's why. The switch box control becomes part of the resistance to the speaker. Adjusting the volume at the switch box adjust the resistance and impedance between the speaker and amp. This changes the damping. When the resistance is "increased" the damping is "decreased". The result is bass bloom "and" muted treble at the speaker. Each and every time. Don't know why, it just is. That's the way it plays out in my sound room.
So it's better to adjust volume and match speaker output at the pre-amp. Far ahead of the switch box and on the other side of the amp from the speaker. Also, the speaker wire needs to be same gauge and length to each speaker left and right, and pairs. Yes you will hear the difference there to, if you have good speakers and room dial-in.
The value of instant a/b is in determining the extension limits of a subject speaker, not sound signature. Then settle in for the long run and assess the speaker "if" it meets minimums for intended music.
I think switch boxes are bad news in general. Anything that gets between the amp and the speaker here has proven to be a concession. But for me a necessary evil. So far.

 

[fredgarvin]

If you’ve got a smart phone, you can download free SPL meter apps. Download or use a 1 kHz test tone from sources like the Stereophile Test CDs.

Establish a reasonable listening level and determine where the gain control needs to be with each for the same output.

I’m not a fan of switch boxes.

Definitely the way to go, simple and doesn't mess with the resistance of the speakers.

 

[nfafan]

FWIW I use this one -

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=9995

It allows up to 4 pairs to compare, but it has cheap-azzed spring connectors that barely take 16ga wire, so not fun when you are swapping several pairs. Plus no volume compensation, so back to square 1 for the OP.