Help me choose a DAC < $800 (Bryston BDA-1 or Rega DAC R) or?

There's a difference between the unqualified statement of yours to which I responded

Yes, you responded with an unqualified statement of your own, which is why I asked you to go ahead and prove me wrong.

You have painted opamps as the boogie man...which they aren’t. Musically satisfying opamp-based DACs exist just as tube and discrete SS designs do. Neither approach guarantees nor precludes a musical result.

And even those with op amps can be replaced with FET based modules from companies like Sparko and Burson Audio.

You can replace opamps as you mentioned but that is a serious investment, especially if you can't do it yourself.
 
Yes, you responded with an unqualified statement of your own, which is why I asked you to go ahead and prove me wrong.
Are you really not aware of DACs that don't rely upon op amps?

Ok. My Audio Research DAC8 uses matched JFETs for balanced output. The current DAC9 uses 6H30 triodes. PS Audio uses discrete devices. dCS uses discrete devices. EMM Labs uses discrete devices. Ayre Acoustics uses discrete devices. Burson Audio uses discrete devices. Bunches more exist. I related my story of replacing the op amps in the garage system with Burson Audio FETs here

You have painted opamps as the boogie man...which they aren’t.
Just offer significantly less transparency than discrete devices. Cheap bang for the buck, yes.
 
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Fortunately, that is just not the case. Many companies use JFETs or tubes for the output stage.

Are you really not aware of DACs that don't rely upon op amps?

I said the vast majority of DACs have opamps and you said I was wrong. I asked you to list some of those many companies that you claimed are only using discrete components. But, I don't recall saying that I'd never heard of a DAC without a discrete output stage. Although many use an opamp for IV conversion...

And the PS Audio Directstream uses video opamps for switching which feed an audio transformer, which is a passive output stage.
 
I said the vast majority...
What you posted was "Just about every..."

And the PS Audio Directstream uses video opamps for switching which feed an audio transformer, which is a passive output stage.
Of the Perfect Wave DAC, however, PS Audio says: "Every component is a discrete proprietary audio design"

You can replace opamps as you mentioned but that is a serious investment
Three Burson V5s ran $175 shipped.
 
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I am using a PS Audio NuWave DAC, found in Buffalo, it was the store demo $600.00, sound is excellent built like a tank.
 
I am using a PS Audio NuWave DAC, found in Buffalo, it was the store demo $600.00, sound is excellent built like a tank.
Nice choice and another discrete design. From the manual:

"The NWD has a 100% discrete analog output stage and IV converter for a warm and rich sound. No IC op-amps are used in the signal path for the NWD. "
 
So, you've compared discrete devices against opamps in how many circuits and you switched between them at matched levels to come to this conclusion?
Our points of reference are clearly very different. The answer is "lots".

Inherently high feedback (40 db) $.50 op amps just don't deliver the linearity of discrete JFETs or triodes. There's not a single high end preamp or DAC today that chooses cheap op amps for their active devices. Why not ask them why they choose such?

I see you have a Stasis 2. I ran a Stasis 3 for nearly thirty years. Great amps back in the day and could drive Dayton-Wright electrostats quite well. Do you note that Nelson Pass has never used op amps in all his many products? Similarly, Dan D'Agostino would laugh at using such. :)

They work great for $150 components.
 
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There's not a single high end preamp or DAC today that chooses cheap op amps for their active devices.

Umm...$3950 Rowland Capri S2 preamp, $14900 Rowland Corus preamp, and $4K PS Audio Directstream Jr. All made today and hail from Colorado. Maybe it's the weed?
 
Umm...$3950 Rowland Capri S2 preamp, $14900 Rowland Corus preamp, and $4K PS Audio Directstream Jr.
I don't use "price" as criteria. To each his own.

Note that the "Signature" Bascom King designed units in the PS Audio line use triodes and MOSFETs. And Charlie Hansen's Ayre products (also from CO) use discrete devices.

The case of the Corus certainly is cool (and expensive) looking in person being formed from a single billet of aluminum. Heard it at Sea Cliff years ago. I'd rather spend money on the circuitry than the box. :)
 
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I see you have a Stasis 2. I ran a Stasis 3 for nearly thirty years. Great amps back in the day...

Agreed!

Do you note that Nelson Pass has never used op amps in all his many products?

The Forte 2 preamp used opamps as the active devices in both the phono and linestage.

Similarly, Dan D'Agostino would laugh at using such.

Krell KPS-20i uses an opamp for IV conversion. He didn't have to...

I don't use "price" as criteria.

So, Rowland is not Hi End? Please feel welcome to visit me anytime and we can drive over to Jeff Rowland's office (it's 10 minutes away) so you can convince him of the error of his ways.

Note that the "Signature" Bascom King designed units in the PS Audio line use triodes and MOSFETs. And Charlie Hansen's Ayre products (also from CO) use discrete devices.

I never said that Colorado is an opamp-only state. We believe in freedom for all types of amplification. BTW, have you thought about changing your member name to "Non Sequitur"? :D
 
The Forte 2 preamp used opamps as the active devices in both the phono and linestage.
That's how you control cost with low end products.

Krell KPS-20i uses an opamp for IV conversion. He didn't have to...
Nor did he according to Stereophile. From this review:

"The analog output stage is a refinement of Krell's previous analog stages—pure class-A, fully discrete, and all direct-coupled."

So, Rowland is not Hi End?
It does have a high end box. :)

Was not at all impressed hearing it in Harry's system as compared with much better. It was, however, pretty. And not gaudy like McIntosh stuff.

I greatly preferred the C-J ART, VTL 7.5 and Veloce available at the time.
 
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kps-20i-13-krell.jpg

Picture of the Krell KPS-20i. There are 2 opamps (OP42G) on either side of the electrolytic cap (in the upper middlish of the picture). These are used for the current-to-voltage (IV) conversion of the output of the PCM63s. Some DA chips actually incorporate an opamp for this conversion.
 
Was not at all impressed hearing it in Harry's system as compared with much better.

I'm sure you heard it exactly as you remember. I have been driven from the room by some of Krell's products, so they aren't high end either?
 
I'm sure you heard it exactly as you remember. I have been driven from the room by some of Krell's products, so they aren't high end either?
Easy to remember if a newcomer unseats the reference. It didn't. That and the power amp were gone the next time I visited.

Never was a Krell fan myself as they had a dark house sound. Harry used KSA250 for years, however, driving the woofer towers of the Nola Grand Exoticas.
 
Nor did he according to Stereophile. From this review:

"The analog output stage is a refinement of Krell's previous analog stages—pure class-A, fully discrete, and all direct-coupled."

Yet, the same "Stereophile" gave both the Benchmark DAC2 & DAC3 A+ ratings placing them among some very respectable units. Somewhere, John Siau is laughing at your DAC design prowess.
 
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Yet, the same "Stereophile" gave both the Benchmark DAC2 & DAC3 A+ ratings placing it among some very respectable units. Somewhere, John Siau is laughing at your DAC design prowess.
Goodie for him. Others find those designs dry/digital sounding.

Clearly, he isn't an analog designer or else he wouldn't have employed a canned solution. The first thing I would do is replace the LME49860s with Burson Audio FETs.

They do however, work cost effectively with products like the Sony PHA-1A.
 
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