CLEANING VINYL - The AK compendium of fact, fiction and collective wisdom

[Wolfman181]

Hi Severius. Welcome. I also grew up in the 70's when most of the music that I am now tring to restore was new back then. Your comments on cleaning with Dishwasher is right on. That's what I had and used. In fact, I still have mine and still sometimes use it now with my anti-stat gun. There is a difference though between now an then. Then we were buying vinyl that was new. I took good care of my vinyl and just a wipe with a liquid cleaner was all we had and needed. You are right there. But to say the stuff sounded crappy, not my albums. Today we are up against a much different problem. We have 50 year old vinyl that may have not been taken take of very well. Years of dirt, fuzzy crap and even mold. So the idea is to come up with the best way to clean these vinyls without damaging them further.

By the way, I am going to try a mix that uses 90.5% ethanol instead ISO. I found that alot of commercial mixes are using ethanol. So I have ordered lab grade stuff. Maybe it will clean better. I will let the group know. Also the use of hydrogen peroxide might be something to think about. Some of this may help as an enzyme cleaner to get rid of any organics. Just my thought.

 

[onwardjames]

The current deification of something that used to be common, ordinary, and mediocre is a source of amazement to me.

I read all of your post, and wanted to perhaps elucidate on what I meant by "the magic of vinyl".

First, I have an older friend who was in radio with me back in the day, but his days go back to when that's what radio stations played.
The man DETESTS vinyl to this day. For all the various, and legitimate, complaints you have made, he made as well. Pops, clicks, warps, mistracking, skips, scratches, on and on. Flipping a record. IGD. Alignment. The idea that with each play, it sounds worse.

I get it. I get ALL of it. And......mostly, I agree. BUT...

(please, nobody get offended by what I'm about to say)

With vinyl, it's akin to having intimate relations with that woman (or man) that you want, desire, love. Yeah, it's a struggle to keep love alive, and it takes hard work. Interpreting (or misinterpreting) their wants, needs, and balancing that with what YOU need from it. The actual PROCESS of the act, and all the things that come with it, both good and bad. Challenging, yes, but when all that comes together, you find yourself in a state of bliss.

The inverse of that is self-gratification. This is so much easier. No committee to go thru, no missed suggestions. Yeah, you can have all you want ready to go, choose your flavor, your style, etc, and have your moment. It's perfect according to the parameters you wish to see, but can (not always, but sometimes) leave you wanting more.

For me, I enjoy finding an out-of-print pressing, getting it clean (rehab, if you will) and then transferring to digital domain, where I further remove that noise. Then, if the vinyl's a good pressing, I put in rotation with the rest of my pile, and marvel at dragging a stone forged in the heat of a volcano thru plastic with unbelievably small notches that make sound.

I guess it's also the difference between driving an old vintage car, or a new Toyota. New Toyota will go for 100k even if you do nothing, and the vintage car will need lots of TLC, but which gives you the biggest thrill??

Your results may vary, and that's okay.

I will say that when vinyl is truly dialed in on a competent system, for me, it has a life-like quality that I just don't get with digital, tho I am perfectly fine with digital.

 

[LinnsondekLP]

Hi Severius. Welcome. I also grew up in the 70's when most of the music that I am now tring to restore was new back then. Your comments on cleaning with Dishwasher is right on. That's what I had and used. In fact, I still have mine and still sometimes use it now with my anti-stat gun. There is a difference though between now an then. Then we were buying vinyl that was new. I took good care of my vinyl and just a wipe with a liquid cleaner was all we had and needed. You are right there. But to say the stuff sounded crappy, not my albums. Today we are up against a much different problem. We have 50 year old vinyl that may have not been taken take of very well. Years of dirt, fuzzy crap and even mold. So the idea is to come up with the best way to clean these vinyls without damaging them further.

By the way, I am going to try a mix that uses 90.5% ethanol instead ISO. I found that alot of commercial mixes are using ethanol. So I have ordered lab grade stuff. Maybe it will clean better. I will let the group know. Also the use of hydrogen peroxide might be something to think about. Some of this may help as an enzyme cleaner to get rid of any organics. Just my thought.

Keep posting your findings, interested to hear about different cleaning solution formulas and their results on SQ.

 

[janikphoto]

Has anyone tried one of those peel-off face masks?

 

[Wolfman181]

Hi guys. I have thought about the masks but have not tried one. I am not sure what is in one. I would think that because it can go on ones skin it would not hurt a vinyl record. It may be something to try as it would be a much faster verision of the wood glue method. Price wise not sure if it would be a good choice as I do not know how expensive they are or how much you get or how it comes when you buy one of them.
As for what I have been working on my ethanol has arrived. It is lab grade denatured ethanol. I need to look more closely at the specs on the bottle. I plan to do some testing today by doing some test mixes. Also plan to run some ideas past my chemist. Then doing a cleaning or two to see just how well it does incorporating all that I have learned so far. If successful I will put up a mix list here.
Also I have been saving my penny's. My plan maybe to buy to more pieces of gear. A 6L ultrasonic cleaning unit and making my own holder for records for it. The ones on the net are just way to expensive for what you get. Plus a spin unit. The ultrasonic is self explanatory as to its purpose. The spin unit would be used as a rinse bath. So my ultimate cleaning system would be this. Start out by laying flat your record and applying some wet cleaner, letting it set a minute or two then brushing it to loosen things up. Then to the ultrasonic unit for cleaning using my own liquid mixture. From there to a rinse spin bath with just water and like a dishwasher rinse agent. Then to the Record Doctor to dry the record and clean off the remaining junk. Handling the record with a lint-free micro towel for a final look and dry. The ultrasonic can do like 5 or 7 records at a time if I build a unit that can handle that many. But for today it's the mix. Maybe it will work so well there will be no need for the rest. Who knows.

 

[JJCalvillo]

Bought a Spin Clean yesterday, and have to say it's money well spent. Listening to records I cleaned last night, and they mostly sound new. All the static/background noise that was not caused by a scratch is gone or at least knocked back a lot.

 

[Wolfman181]

Very interesting news on the spin clean. The thing that is so interesting about it is that from what I can see in the pictures and I can be wrong about this, it looks like it uses a felt type brush. So no bristles but more like a type of felt pad like a dishwasher would have to clean the vinyl. Is this an accurate statement? Maybe my next gear buy should be one of these before a ultrasonic.
As for my mix results. I have just started with some tests so this is really preliminary. So far I can say that the use of ethanol has had some good effects over ISO. It seems to clean very effectively and better than ISO. Wait, that's not fair. Maybe I should say it cleans differently than ISO not better than. But so far I can say the mix does not hurt the vinyl at all. Does not hurt the stylus and does not add static. In fact, it does take away static. After cleaning, I have not seen any residual dirt or fuzz left on the vinyl when I play the record for the first time after cleaning and I sometimes have with ISO. That's good. That's all I am prepared to say right now. I have to spend more time and do more with this idea. Maybe using both ISO and ethenol together in a mix would get make sense.

 

[JJCalvillo]

Actually, I think they are bristles. They appear to be a pad because of the density and the short length. Could be wrong but that's my take. Based on what I'm hearing, it seems they would have to clean into the grooves.

I pushed the two brushes together and the bristles are dense enough to lock the brushes together.

 

[Wolfman181]

Actually, I think they're are bristles. They appear to be a pad because of the density and the short length. Could be wrong but that's my take. Based on what I'm hearing, it seems they would have to clean into the grooves.

I pushed the two brushes together and the bristles are dense enough to lock the brushes together.

View attachment 1461484

WOW. That's Cool. That's really a game changer I think. Thanks a ton for sharing that with me and with the group. That would get into the very small groves in a way that no other cleaner that I have seen would. The brush that came with my Record Doctor is much bigger bristle than that. I also have a goat hair brush that I use too. That one is cool. Thanks again!!!

 

[JJCalvillo]

Also, I looked at the instructions and they are referred to as brushes. For whatever that's worth.

For the test wash, I went and found the oldest records I had. L.Z. "II", Badfinger "Magic Christian", "Disraeli Gears",
"Fresh Cream", "Abraxas" and about 15 others that were 60's or 70's, no re-issues. Except for a few that have scratches, they sound new and are CLEAN.

Of course, I didn't exactly follow instructions. Think they recommended 3 turns in each direction and I did 4, and if I lost count probably 5. Since the record was in the tub, right!

 

[Wolfman181]

With what you just said and what I saw about the brushes I just ordered one. I did some research on the other let's say copycat models that are less and found that like I thought they do not have brushes that come with them. They have felt pads. Comments made by others that have bought them say they think they wasted their money because they could do the same job with a spray cleaner and a micro-fiber cloth as that is all the pad is. I wish I knew what was in their solution. Spin clean claims it has no alchohol in their mix. Hhhmmmm.

 

[JJCalvillo]

I hope you like yours as much as I like mine.

 

[drjohnnyfeva]

I'll chime back in here. savatage1973 gave me the heads up that paint pads, not the cheap sponge ones, but the ones that had the bristles on them were a cheap alternative to merely the dish washing method most of us used in the 70's. I call it, "Dawn and Dishwater." But that little tidbit of the "bristles" is a key. You need something gentle to get into the grooves of the LP to remove the debris.

I experimented with a ton of this stuff and some harsh stuff too. The best results I got were from Goo Gone. The Audiophiles are puking right now... I'm talking about this method for Goodwill or exceptionally dirty LP's. It works in the short term. Whether it damages the LP in the long-term, I won't be able to answer that for many years. In the meantime, the cheap LP's I generally buy $2.99 - $4.99 sound awesome when...

1- spray Goo Gone on LP
2 -scrub with paint pad in the grooves in both directions and allow to sit a minute or two
3- one more time around with the paint pad
4- rinse with tap water
5- Dawn and dishwater scrub/ wash with different paint pad -- this gets rid of the residue of the Goo Gone.
6- rinse with tap water
7- distilled water/ipa 90/ jet dry spray and paint pad several times around
8- rinse with distilled water and jet dry.

Allow to dry or blow dry on very low because you can't wait...

At any of the rinse cycles, use whatever cleaning formula is what you use, but the last rinse should be distilled water, some water shielding agent, and a paint pad, ending with just a liquid rinse.

You're laughing. I know. Seems like a lot of work. It isn't. And you'll never need to clean the LP in that manner again.

This is where the anit-static brushes come in, the lint wheels - - -gently, so as not to push sh!t back in the grooves.. that's general cleaning.

If it's your record and you've handled it carefully since you bought it, you don't need this. An occasional rinse or once over with your dust remover of choice is all it takes.

I almost refuse to spend more that 6.99 on a LP anymore given the results I've had. And don't forget to put the LP in a new sleeve like disk keeper or whatever you prefer after it's cleaned and dried.

Good luck!

 

[Wolfman181]

Goo Gone? Hhhmmmm. I have some but have not thought of using that as a cleaner. That stuff is used to get rid of sticky residues if I read the bottle right. Interesting idea.
So as I am A Prime member my spin cleaner is here already. Yea!. First impressions. No surprises. Right now my collection has been cleaned so I do not have a set of vinyl that I can clean but on Saturday there will be a record show. So I am sure I will be getting some there that will need attention. Always do. As for the unit it is what it said it is. Two thing interest me. The "cleaning fluid" for one. A non-alcohol base cleaner that still gets the vinyl clean. There is no real odor to the stuff. They claim that the dirt sinks to the bottom and that you will see it there in contrast too the bright yellow tank. That's why they made the tank yellow to see the dirt in it. So my thought is that the fluid is more of a flocculent than a cleaner. The fluid just gets the dirt away from the vinyl as I see a little foam in it and then drops it to the bottom, the flocculent. The real cleaning is done by the brushes. And that's the second thing. And they are brushes as discribed and you guys have shown correctly. Here is a real close up picture of one. You can see the bristles in a line. They say to move in a clockwise turn as that's how a player would turn as well. I will have more to come this weekend after I have a chance to really use the unit.

 

[drjohnnyfeva]

I understand the "going clockwise because that's as the needle goes," but the bristles and cleaning needs to go in the counter clockwise way too, to dislodge anything that gets pushed into a "corner." We've all experienced this in the cleaning of anything, almost. Sometimes going backwards is just enough to dislodge that pesky part. Same holds true with vinyl.

Note on the Goo Gone....... It's an "orange cleaner." One of those citrus compositions we used to see on infomercials. It is great at removing everything that is not vinyl. To my knowledge, it has nothing detrimental to the vinyl. There are some harsh chemicals that do a good job now that are absorbed into the vinyl and make it deteriorate over time. There are none of those things in Goo Gone. There's an English DJ that has a ton of 45's and on YouTube that talks about how he has kept his disks clean and demonstrates both good and bad ways of cleaning them AND organizing them. It's all about 45's, but vinyl is vinyl. I wish I could find them again. If/when I do, I'll post them. Some old cleaning methods that he put the kybosh on were gasoline and other ---zene chemicals. They clean the hell outta stuff, but also would melt the vinyl if exposed long enough and others that would make them harden over time. I'll post them when I find them.

 

[Wolfman181]

I do not wish to say that any method use by anyone is bad or something that should not be used. It is not my place nor do I wish to start anything. I just wish to help find the best way to get to the best method of cleaning vinyl records without hurting them. That's it. Getting down to basics, what is a record made of? Vinyl or polyvinyl chloride. (PVC) or at least from what my research suggests. If this is true then that says its made up of plastics. Plastics that come from crude oil or petroleum distillates. Then chloride or salt. So in my mind what could hurt something made from petroleum distillates? Well, any product that contains something that mixes with petroleum would, in some time, begin to break down the vinyl and do damage. I hope that makes sense. Even if you leave it on for a short period of time may do damage that you can't see with the eye. So it's reasonable to assume that things like gas, turpentine, brush cleaner, or anything with a petroleum base would not be good for vinyl records. Or am I off on this? I could be but it seems to me this makes sense.
So if this is then true Goo Gone may not be something to use as it is made with petroleum distillates. So here a funny thing. Almost all of the homemade mixes I have heard of call for using ISO alcohol. If you look it up, it is a petroleum distillate and falls into a class of acetates or esters. It does evaporate quickly but still stays on your vinyl for several minutes or longer. Maybe this is why Spin Clean uses a non-alcohol formula. Their gear is made from plastics and the records are made from vinyl. Hhhmmmm.
Here is the MSDS for GooGone incase you want to see it. I started using ethanol in my mix. It is not a petroleum distillate but made from a plant base. No petroleum. Lots of commercial mixes when you can find the ingredients say they use ethanol.
That's why I thought of trying it. Please use this info as you see fit.

 

[drjohnnyfeva]

You are correct, Wolfman. My apologies. I guess I'll be looking for a different "Orange" cleaner. And it does say, indeed, in very small print, "petroleum distillates" on the label. Old eyes and trusting the "Citrus Power" on the front label, silly me. I'll keep that for other things.

 

[Wolfman181]

I hope no one take my findings wrong. I am only trying to put out information that we all can use together. It's not my place to tell anyone methods they like or use are bad or not to use them. But only information that I have found and I hope others will find usefull.
As for the Spin Clean. I set it up following the instructions exactly using the cleaner that came with the kit. I have to say one cap full to a full tank of water seems a bit light to me. The stuff must be very concentrated to do any good. But that's what I did. And I did use purified water out of my reverse osmosis machine. The records were ones I got at the record show yesterday. I played them untouched before cleaning and then after cleaning. 1st pressings and one was a original Master recording. So good stuff. Once dry then played on my Marantz 6300. I got about what I expected from the unit. It did a much better job than a spray bottle and micro-cloth. Any method like that I think the Spin will do better. The vinyl to the eye looked every clean. When played, well a bit different. There was still background noise left. Mind you these albums did not show any scratches or paper scuffs when I bought them. They just looked dirty and had the looks of old vinyl we have all seen before. After they were cleaned they looked almost like new. It's when you play them that you notice the noise that was still there.
So I have more work to do with the unit I think. Different cleaner or more of what came with it. Maybe more times around than three or four. I don't know. Or I should go back to my orginal thought of making this unit part of my bigger cleaning plan. It does a good job and I like it. It's worth what I paid for it for sure. But so far it's not the last word in cleaning. But then neither is the Doctor. It's a great cleaner also but does not get it all. I am now thinking that I can still setup a cleaning system under 500 bucks. Buy an ultrasonic unit for the real fine stuff making my own record holder. Have the Spin Cleaner for a rinse tub plus cleaner. And the Doctor for a drying and vacuum at the end of the process. For what is worth.

 

[Wolfman181]

So guys, is anyone still reading this thread? If so, the ultrasonic cleaner has arrived. My son and I have completed the record holder and it works well. So I am ready to begin trying some tests with it to see how well I can get clean some of the records that I have that still have dirt in them. These will be ones that I have cleaned with both the Spin Clean and the Record Doctor first but still have some work to be done with background noise plus pops and clicks on them. I want to see if I can eliminate most if not all of those bad boys.
As for the Spin Clean the more I use it the more I am impressed with it. I use my own cleaner but still it does a very good job and I can see the crap in the bottom of the tank. I am lucky to get 10 records before I need to change the fluid. I am going to try instead filtering the fluid threw an old coffee pot with filter on top of it to see if I can clean it up to use it longer rather than replacing it. Not running it through the machine but just dumping the fluid into the open filter opening and letting it drain down to the pot. More to come on that.

 

[drjohnnyfeva]

So the guy on YouTube I mentioned in an earlier post is named John Manship. He has some interesting cleaning videos and in one shows what NOT to do. Here's the one I was talking about...