Thoughts on the C2300 vs the new C22 (reissue) ....

Has anyone compared these two preamps?
I had the same question....I did goto Best Buy and demo C2500 and MC275.
They had it hooked up to MartinLogan - Theos 8".

Seemed Flat sounding to me....Bass was washed out. It's the speakers I did not like. Since this system was outside
of the Sound Room....no way to switch to different speakers.

Since I been looking(2yrs) to get a Tube Amp....I just ordered a Bob Latino VTA-ST120 Amp. After reading much on
this amp and MC275...With also head to head...The Latino VTA-ST120 came out the better sounding unit.
Now I was looking at C2200, C2300.....not sure at this time.
 
I would pick the C-22, I prefer the flexibility of the older pre-amps and the C-22 fills that notch. It doesn't have all the remote features, which are necessary for some folks. Spec wise they are pretty close and both have MC inputs, which the older pre-amps didn't have and I always thought was a big mistake. Now if they just had the 16" chassis and were the same size as my original C-22.
 
You guy's joeinid is talking about the NEW C22

Anyway I haven't listen to them side by side in my own system. But the new C22 is basically a C2300 in old close, since mac is learning by the mistakes made with the C2500
 
You guy's joeinid is talking about the NEW C22

Anyway I haven't listen to them side by side in my own system. But the new C22 is basically a C2300 in old close, since mac is learning by the mistakes made with the C2500
What mistake did they make with the C2500? I must have missed something...
 
I have heard the 2500 against the 1000 and the 500 and I agree it sounds different, but I don't know if I would call it a mistake. And yes I would rather have a 48 or a 50, but if a 2500 is a mistake so was the 220, 2300. Remember guys all these so called tube pre-amps are Hybrids. They are all hybrids with inter stage SS buffers and output buffers insuring the best use of the tubes. I would love to hear the new C1100 with a pair of my favorite 1.2k audition amps. I bet the sound will be of tubes reaching a new plateau.
 
What mistake did they make with the C2500? I must have missed something...

Putting a DAC in it, not providing easy to use firmware, windows only, users are having lots of issues doing the install to the point of turning them into door stops. Then what are their option for buying a 2ch preamp that mac turned into a hassle of a computer? not have their stereo, sending the unit in for repair, time and money... hey it's only two-three years old.

Mac doesn't even take them back in their upgrade program, why? because the older it gets the less it has value to anyone.
 
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I have heard the 2500 against the 1000 and the 500 and I agree it sounds different, but I don't know if I would call it a mistake. And yes I would rather have a 48 or a 50, but if a 2500 is a mistake so was the 220, 2300. Remember guys all these so called tube pre-amps are Hybrids. They are all hybrids with inter stage SS buffers and output buffers insuring the best use of the tubes. I would love to hear the new C1100 with a pair of my favorite 1.2k audition amps. I bet the sound will be of tubes reaching a new plateau.
The C1100 no DAC, C1000 no DAC, C500 no DAC, C220 no DAC, C2200 no DAC C2300 on DAC. The C2300 is in more demand than the C2500 because it has no DAC and used they cost about the same.

Quiet telling that Mac used the 2300 design for the "New C22", and the new C1100 doesn't have a DAC but has USB for firmware updates, this I would worry about.
 
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The C1100 no DAC, C1000 no DAC, C500 no DAC, C220 no DAC, C2200 no DAC C2300 on DAC. The C2300 is in more demand than the C2500 because it has no DAC and used they cost about the same.

Quiet telling that Mac used the 2300 design for the "New C22", and the new C1100 doesn't have a DAC but has USB for firmware updates, this I would worry about.

Oh yes I forgot your standing on this.....I of course disagree strongly. You don't actually know for certain that is why the C2300 is in more demand, lets be honest here, but on the other hand we dont really know its not because of the DAC either....
The C2500 as a pre-amp totally out performs the C2300, and regardless of whether I wanted a DAC or not, I would choose the 2500.....
All my opinion of course........

I will always stand by the on-board DAC, I used mine every day and it sounds as good as the day I got it, there will never be a time that it will be obsolete and not be able to be used...
 
Funny that the C2500 is more popular. The buyers must have missed the anti-C2500 crusade memo.
Thanks,
Ron-C
 
Putting a DAC in it, not providing easy to use firmware, windows only, users are having lots of issues doing the install to the point of turning them into door stops. Then what are their option for buying a 2ch preamp that mac turned into a hassle of a computer? not have their stereo, sending the unit in for repair, time and money... hey it's only two-three years old.

Mac doesn't even take them back in their upgrade program, why? because the older it gets the less it has value to anyone.

The Trade Up program certainly applies to C22, C2300, C2500, C48, C50 etc.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
Ron you have been getting pissed off emails.
Let's start here AK doesn't have its pulses on what is happening with buyers feelings about this. However if you go to a site like AA they are trashing Mac over this. Me I don't care I'll never buy from Mac a AVR or digital component or anything that is not a separate. If Mac came out with a stand alone DAC I would really look at it and see how their support was going. Right now I wouldn't, I also will not even look if my D100 needs firmware, besides I have all Appel computers.

If Mac wants to play in the digital realm they need to step up their game.
 
BTW Ron no disrespect its this has been a issue with the c2500 from the start and Mac just keeps telling people it's the player and to go to jrivers. Far far far to many people have done that and still have issues with the c2500.
 
Customers love the C2500 preamp. I used a C48 for many years which has the same DAC and it worked great as other users have posted.

Thanks,
Ron-C
 
This thread was started a while ago and then someone else bumped it because they where having problems. These problems have been happening for years, now mac has firmware out to try to address the issues. We also have threads here with the same issues...
Mcintosh C2500 preamp problem

Because the other thread got bumped and a member started to try the firmware updates in it, now they have a door stop and had to send it back to McIntosh because the dealer couldn't get it unfrozen.
Another member started this thread and it has 186 post in 7 days, mind you this is a slow moving site. Something like this would be like a cable war thread here with a 1000 post in that time.
Firmware updates: Why so inconvenient ?

You'll find these at Audio Aficionado, the largest site I know of with a whole hell of a lot of mac owners, owners of top flight new equipment. They are the ones using and buying new mac products everyday.
 
Putting a DAC in it, not providing easy to use firmware, windows only, users are having lots of issues doing the install to the point of turning them into door stops. Then what are their option for buying a 2ch preamp that mac turned into a hassle of a computer? not have their stereo, sending the unit in for repair, time and money... hey it's only two-three years old.

Mac doesn't even take them back in their upgrade program, why? because the older it gets the less it has value to anyone.

I have done two firmware updates on my C48, both the firmware and the USB audio software. I have real world experience with this.
How many have you done on McInotsh pre-amps? Please share to validate your claims.

Firstly the firmware installation is easy for any computer literate person to use.

There is actually no way of turning it into a door stop if you screw up the installation. Example, while my last update was happening I accidentally stood on my USB cable and it popped out of my computer.
I thought I was done, I thought it was a brick.
So I contacted McIntosh and they sent me the "so you've turned your pre-amp into a brick" instructions.
McIntosh have cleverly designed these pre-amps so that you can reload the default boot loader by a push of a button whilst connecting the power, there's also a method and another push button solution to reset the unit.
Most designers cheap out and don't go to these lengths McIntosh do to make sure you can never brick the unit. McIntosh don't cut corners on the products they make including their Digital audio products.
Normally a cheaply designed unit would have to have the logic chip replaced when something like that happens, and then you'd find its not available any more, but not McIntosh, as it happens, they design their digital products for longevity and reliabilty....
I feel you are being ridiculously harsh about the onboard DAC's and logic controlled analogue pre-amps. Sure, you are entitled to your opinions and I respect that, but I reckon you could lighten up a bit to be honest.

I run J-river on a 2011 Macbook Pro, I have very little issues, less issues than my Benchmark, way less....
I also run the apple TV and my Pansonic Viera Plasma though the C48, I play you tube off my computer, I stream radio stations directly or sometimes through iTunes.....it ALL works!! How about that.....
 
I have done two firmware updates on my C48, both the firmware and the USB audio software. I have real world experience with this.
How many have you done on McInotsh pre-amps? Please share to validate your claims.

Firstly the firmware installation is easy for any computer literate person to use.

There is actually no way of turning it into a door stop if you screw up the installation. Example, while my last update was happening I accidentally stood on my USB cable and it popped out of my computer.
I thought I was done, I thought it was a brick.
So I contacted McIntosh and they sent me the "so you've turned your pre-amp into a brick" instructions.
McIntosh have cleverly designed these pre-amps so that you can reload the default boot loader by a push of a button whilst connecting the power, there's also a method and another push button solution to reset the unit.
Most designers cheap out and don't go to these lengths McIntosh do to make sure you can never brick the unit. McIntosh don't cut corners on the products they make including their Digital audio products.
Normally a cheaply designed unit would have to have the logic chip replaced when something like that happens, and then you'd find its not available any more, but not McIntosh, as it happens, they design their digital products for longevity and reliabilty....
I feel you are being ridiculously harsh about the onboard DAC's and logic controlled analogue pre-amps. Sure, you are entitled to your opinions and I respect that, but I reckon you could lighten up a bit to be honest.

I run J-river on a 2011 Macbook Pro, I have very little issues, less issues than my Benchmark, way less....
I also run the apple TV and my Pansonic Viera Plasma though the C48, I play you tube off my computer, I stream radio stations directly or sometimes through iTunes.....it ALL works!! How about that.....

Kev your a member of Audio Aficionado, go to those threads and read member after member after member having or had many problems. First it was with the units and now it's the software fix. It's a easy thread to find Firmware updates: Why so inconvenient ? with 125 negative comments. Hell Ron should be over there really as what the common thread and feeling is, is that mac has there head in a bubble and not taking care of all the issues and customer support. I ain't shitting on the total dissatisfaction diehard mac owners are feeling over this.
 
Kev your a member of Audio Aficionado, go to those threads and read member after member after member having or had many problems. First it was with the units and now it's the software fix. It's a easy thread to find Firmware updates: Why so inconvenient ? with 125 negative comments. Hell Ron should be over there really as what the common thread and feeling is, is that mac has there head in a bubble and not taking care of all the issues and customer support. I ain't shitting on the total dissatisfaction diehard mac owners are feeling over this.
how many are moaning though, could be a rather small minority of guys at the end of the day....I haven't been on that site for a long time, I find it too snobby...
I stand by my comments, I have not found the updates inconvenient, or difficult...
I'll go and have a look out of morbid curiosity though...
 
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