Infinity RSIIIa questions

[tuffstuff1]

I could not pass this pair up for 150. The physical appearance is great. the woofers need refoamed. I did not notice until I got them home that one of the upper woofer did not have the bullet dust cap. It has the normal dust cap like the two bottom woofers. Is there something special about that bullet shaped dust cap? Does it emit differently? Will it detract from the value? Also there is a padded material in a rectangular shape around the polydome and the tweeter. It is deteriorating too. My questions are... The woofer difference? What is the best material for foam surrounds and where to buy? What purpose does the padding serve around the polydome and tweeter and can the deteriorating material be replaced. What is the material? Where can it be bought? I have never recapped speakers before. What caps should be replaced and where to buy? These are such nice looking speakers. I would like to do them right. If you have any suggestions about these that would be great too. Your input would be greatly appreciated.:yes:

 

[loquatious]

i don't own RSIIIA's, but think you got a very good deal on some well respected speakers. i think you'll be happy with them.

the "bullet" you refer to on the woofer is a phase plug. i'll defer to wikipedia to explain it's purpose:

the intent is to minimize higher-frequency wave interference near the driver. in the case of a woofer, "high frequency" is relative to the intended bandpass; for example, a 12-inch (300*mm) cone woofer might be expected to reproduce 550*Hz energy near the top of its intended range, however, the wavelength of 550*Hz is approximately twice the diameter of the woofer, so wave energy at that frequency traveling laterally from one side to the other will be out of phase and will cancel. with a phase plug in the center, such lateral wave energy bounces off of the obstruction and is reflected outward toward the listener.

depending on application, infinity spec'ed phase plugs on some poly-coned woofers. some models got them others didn't. the RSIIIA got them, so i'm assuming infinity felt they enhanced the listening experience, vs no phase plug.

to the matter at hand, based on photos of other RSIIIa's, there should be a phase plug on all 4 woofers. hard to say without pics of yours, but i'd suspect 3 of your woofers might be replacements. do non original woofers detract from value? from a collectibility standpoint, yes, but factory recommended replacements detract less than non-infinity sourced drivers. i'd check the numbers on the woofers and see if they are recommended infinity replacements, or something else. see what you are actually working with.

infinity was into tweaking the sound by addressing wave reflections. the foam sheet around the emit and polydome, was another way of fine-tuning the sound by addressing and diffusing wave reflections.

i'll let actual owners chime in about foam sources and re-capping specifics. (though i will say the electrolytic caps should be replaced, and you can source caps from parts express or madisound).




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[halo71]

Congrats on the speakers! I picked up a pair in Atlanta a few years back for the same amount. The foam around the EMITS and Polydomes is a common thing that needs replaced. Although I have not replaced mine yet. It is supposed to help with reflections on the front baffle. Pretty sure I am not explaining that part correctly though. When I removed that crumbling foam I had a vacuum hose running to catch all pieces and dust. Didn't want anything getting into the EMITS. Refoaming the woofers is very easy to do as well. The only things mine need to be pretty much fully restored is replacing that foam on the baffle, recovering the grills and finding the correct Infinity logo's.

When I got mine I soon discovered that the previous owner had wired the woofers wrong when he replaced them after refoaming them. Practically no bass at all. Fixing that and recapping the crossovers really woke them up! Search this forum for threads about recapping. Lots of info here.

Also what are you powering them with? Although not a real tough load on an amp. I would make sure you have enough juice to keep from clipping them. I am running a 165 wpc M504 on mine. Btw....Do yours have binding posts or spring clips on the back?

Enjoy your speakers!

 

[srb02]

some people/companies removed the dust caps to shim the voice coils when refoaming. In your case, maybe they wreacked the bullet cap. Check the part numbers on the magnets of your woofers to confirm you have a complete set of four.

Here is a great place to get new foam:http://www.thefoamfactory.com/opencellfoam/filter.html :thmbsp:

Just hint, it's a real pain to cut foam straight and neat. :tears:

I drive mine w/ tubes sometimes, but mostly w/ an Adcom 545, all around nice combo for me, in my "cave". :thmbsp:

my two cents stu

 

[slimpikkins]

Not an owner of the IIIa but have seen plenty of pics of them with the clear poly woofers with black dust caps. Sometimes just one or all woofers. I'm guessing they were infinity replacements from when they still supported them.
http://www.infinity-classics.de/mod...6/Reference-Standard-III-A-B/rs3a-frt-vor.jpg
Notice how perfect those dust caps are in that pic. If yours are that way I'd guess they are Infinity factury replacements. If you want them to all look the same you can easily find them on ebay and just resell the ones you are replacing...
Jim

 

[tuffstuff1]

Awesome! Great stuff guys. You have answered all my questions. I wish this stupid laptop would let me post more than one pic. All three woofers have the 9022279A marking on the magnets. The black dust caps appear to be infinity replacements. Makes me happy I might try to find another woofer with a phase plug or maybe not. It would look better with the covers off. Mine do have binding posts BTW. I am thinking about powering them with my MAC MA6100. It is 75WPC but I think really more like 90WPC (underrated). What do you think? I still need to get the foam surrounds ordered up. I will send other pics I took when I get to the office tomorrow. For some reason they load right up there:scratch2: Looking forward to the project and especially my first recap too. Can't wait to hear them!!! Thanks again for being so genorus with your time to post. Take it easy!!! :thmbsp:

 

[tuffstuff1]

Her'e more pics. They loaded up immediately on my work PC. Weird.

 

[loquatious]

they look really nice.

902-2279a is the recommended replacement woofer, so you're much better off than if they were non-infinity bits.

your mac 6100 will probably drive them, but i don't think you'll get their full potential. spec's i see for the 6100 rate it at 70wpc at both 4 and 8 ohms. the RSIIIa are rated at a (very vague) 4-8 ohm load, so you should be ok there, but i think the RSIIIa are going to want at least 100wpc before they start to give what they are capable of.

i've attached the 2 tech sheets. the original hand-drawn infinity schematic, and the after-the-fact HK version. you'll notice they are quite different. in my experience, i usually find the hand-drawn infinity originals to be more accurate than the later HK versions, but you should use the actual cap values you have on your crossovers as a guide for ordering replacement caps.




.

 

[tuffstuff1]

I could have sworn that somewhere in these threads there was a link for the foam woofer surrounds. Simply Speakers doesn't appear to have what I am looking for. Any other suggestions? Thanks a lot. Thank you for the great drawings loquatious!

 

[halo71]

Get in touch with Rick Cobb here on the forum for the surround foams. Weird, Simply Speakers has always had any foams I was in need of.

Also here is a good thread about recapping your IIIa's. The OP of this thread along with a few other members here helped me immensely when I recapped mine.

http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/showthread.php?t=343744&highlight=rsiiia+crossover+rebuild


EDIT: Have you called Simply Speakers? They have great customer service....at least in all my experiences with them.

 

[Twestby]

Hmmmm, I used foam surrounds from simply speakers for my RSIIIB's. doubt they are any different for the "A" version. But maybe?

 

[slimpikkins]

Simply Speakers doesn't appear to have what I am looking for.

they sure do...
http://www.simplyspeakers.com/infinity-speaker-foam-edge-repair-kit-fsk-10i.html

 

[tubed]

The diagrams above seem to indicate the woofers are wired in parallel, however I'm fairly certain my RSIIIa/b were wired in series.
The solid red wire connected to the positive+ of the lower woofer, the red/black wire connected to the negative- of the upper,
a purple wire connecting the postive and negative of each respective woofer.
Or so goes my memory

 

[tuffstuff1]

Well, I refoameed the woofers and decided to give these babies a trial before recapapping. I have a set of MC250 mono blocks and bridged them to 4 ohm. WOW! is all I can say. The MACS drive them with ease with plenty to spare. They are much different than the Kappa 8's. (behind the RSIIIa for now). I have only been listening for about an hour now (YES DRAMA LP), but me thinks the bass is more prevelant on the RS. Well, there is one more 10" drivers in the RS. It will take me a little more "back and forth" to figure it out. I know when I had the Kappa 8's on full range the MC250's seemed a little lackluster. That is why I put the MC2100 stereo on the highs of the 8's and the twin MC250's on the woofers biamped (3 amps! Cool!). The highs on the 8's require a lot of juice. Two completely different animals. I am having fun experimenting. I like doing this. My wife is looking at the Kappas and the RS's in the room back to back and just shaking her head, and not up and down. Hahahaha! Some threads had lead me to believe the sound will change dramatically with a recap on the RS. Is it true? There are mixed opinion on whether to recap or not. Thanks again for the help. Take it easy!

 

[srb02]

Wife: yup, no WAF (wife acceptance factor) here either. :tears:
But she's in Hawaii w/ our daughter for three weeks, .
Guess what got moved from the cave to into the living room as front mains????
My RSIIIA's are singing very nicely right now, as I type, driven w/ a little 3watt SE Tub Amp.
Numerous people have stated a re-cap will wake them up. I just haven't found the time. I should, as other have said, "listen to them re-capped".
if and when you do it, just make sure you replace exactly what is in your crossovers, and don't try and match any one "published" schematic. Infinity change components on-the-fly when they had different batches of drivers.

I'd love to here your comments if you re-cap.

My two cents Stu

 

[halo71]

My RSIIIA's are singing very nicely right now, as I type, driven w/ a little 3watt SE Tub Amp.

I'd love to hear my IIIa's with that amp! I am thinking you should rent it to me for a few weeks! :yes:

 

[tuffstuff1]

I have no expreience with tubes, but the early MAC, llke the 1700, 1900, 6100, 250,2100, 2505 are very tubelike. I have experimented with Yamaha amps and MAC more beacause that is what I narrowed it down to and I love them both, but under different circumstances. I lean toward the MAC with the Infinity beacause it's more laid back. The emits with the Yammie are are just to bright. Amazing what a difference the amp makes. Amazing what a difference a LP makes. Some LP's hurt while others give goosebumps. I keep my best sounding LP's up front.

 

[Dmario]

I recently found a set of RS3a and for the price of $150 for the pair could not help but grab them so I could try them out. I think that nice looking EMIT tweeter was my big draw as I never tried a speaker with the Ribbon tweeter but hear how nice and airy and defined they are supposed to be. Got the set home and was amazed how good they sound.Wide, deep, and transparent sound stage. That just added to my curiosity and of course had to get close to them to check the drivers. Here's where my question starts. To my ears it doesn't seemed I'm getting sound out of the EMIT tweeter. Sounds the same on both sides. Turned up the volume and maybe it seems i am getting a little sound but then again it could be my imagination and just getting the sound from the dome right below. What am I supposed to be hearing or should be listening for ???? some defintely apparent volume or is the EMIT supposed to be handling high ends past audible to accent the preceived audible prescence??? Please forgive if it sounds sort of stupid question but never had speaker like this. Not knowing what to listen for it seems I'm still getting the full spectrum of sound. Is there a way I can test without carting them of to repair shop? the ribbons appear to be clean and intact with no burns or tarish. Is there some modifications I can or should do that would bring out the speaking voice of the EMITs??? Appreciate your kind advice and thank you to all in advance. If they are sounding so good with the EMIT possibly not firing I can only imagine what they might be at full potential and I'd like to hear that. Powering them at current with the NAD L53 which is pretty clean sounding Integrated system. I am also running the NAD into powered SUB woofer first that's handling the low end from 25 to crossing over at about 80 so the RS3a are handling from teh 80 to the top end.

 

[bluescat]

I recently found a set of RS3a and for the price of $150 for the pair could not help but grab them so I could try them out. I think that nice looking EMIT tweeter was my big draw as I never tried a speaker with the Ribbon tweeter but hear how nice and airy and defined they are supposed to be. Got the set home and was amazed how good they sound.Wide, deep, and transparent sound stage. That just added to my curiosity and of course had to get close to them to check the drivers. Here's where my question starts. To my ears it doesn't seemed I'm getting sound out of the EMIT tweeter. Sounds the same on both sides. Turned up the volume and maybe it seems i am getting a little sound but then again it could be my imagination and just getting the sound from the dome right below. What am I supposed to be hearing or should be listening for ???? some defintely apparent volume or is the EMIT supposed to be handling high ends past audible to accent the preceived audible prescence??? Please forgive if it sounds sort of stupid question but never had speaker like this. Not knowing what to listen for it seems I'm still getting the full spectrum of sound. Is there a way I can test without carting them of to repair shop? the ribbons appear to be clean and intact with no burns or tarish. Is there some modifications I can or should do that would bring out the speaking voice of the EMITs??? Appreciate your kind advice and thank you to all in advance. If they are sounding so good with the EMIT possibly not firing I can only imagine what they might be at full potential and I'd like to hear that. Powering them at current with the NAD L53 which is pretty clean sounding Integrated system. I am also running the NAD into powered SUB woofer first that's handling the low end from 25 to crossing over at about 80 so the RS3a are handling from teh 80 to the top end.

Pull the fuse for the tweeter on one speaker and listen for a difference. If no difference check both fuses to make sure they are good (or do that first). If you determine that the emits are not working post back for more info.

 

[Seppo]

In RSIIIa/b the EMIT cross-over frequency is 4000 Hz. So in general only EMIT's play sounds higher than that.

If you have your system hooked up to a PC you can run a frequency sweep, and see if you get any sound out at higher frequencies, e.g. something like this:

These are great all around speakers. IMO even if the EMIT's are gone, they are worth fixing / getting new ones. You can get a used pair of EMIT's for roughly the same money that you paid for the speakers.