Cathedral ceiling in the listening room?

[Crestwood23]

Just moved into a new house and will be converting my garage into a dedicated listening space!




My first question is what to do with the ceiling. I have the option of foregoing a traditional ceiling and doing a 12' cathedral instead. The roof peak runs along the length of the room - the room dimensions are 18'w X 23'l X 12' high (at the center peak of the roof).

I have read lots of conflicting opinions about cathedral ceilings in audio rooms, some say they work well (less parallel surfaces for reflection, increased height lets bass develop) and other says it an acoustic no-no.
Strictly based on looks, I would love to do the cathedral but if it's going to impact the sound in a negative way then it would be off the table. Does anyone have an opinion or experience with this?

 

[dosmalo]

I have cathedral ceilings in my living/listening room and I've never had any problems with it. My back wall is fairly well open and that may make the difference, not sure tho. I just know that I wouldn't change the way my ceiling is as I feel it interacts well with how I have my arrangement set.
In my case I think it is an asset and helps but since there are so many other factors involved it would difficult to gauge what your mileage would be.

 

[Crestwood23]

I have cathedral ceilings in my living/listening room and I've never had any problems with it. My back wall is fairly well open and that may make the difference, not sure tho. I just know that I wouldn't change the way my ceiling is as I feel it interacts well with how I have my arrangement set.
In my case I think it is an asset and helps but since there are so many other factors involved it would difficult to gauge what your mileage would be.

For sure there will be numerous other factors and variables that will affect things, I guess I'm just trying to get a general sense if it's a good idea or not (overall) since this is the one opportunity I will have to build a space from scratch. Sounds like you like yours, I'm glad to hear it as I'd love the taller ceiling. I will have limited windows (could go with zero actually) so without a lot of natural light a high ceiling wil go a long way towards making the space feel open and inviting.

 

[dosmalo]

You might could think about adding one or two of these instead of windows so you'd have some natural light also.
My neighbor has a couple since her living space is located on the north side of her house and they really are nice and help light up her living area in the winter.
Even with me having a more open space behind my listening area I think the higher ceiling is helpful in my case. I just can't imagine not having it and getting the same sound as I have now. I also have about a 10' picture window area which more than likely causes reflection problems but I'm thinking the higher ceiling helps with that also.
Solatube - Official Site

 

[sqlsavior]

I say go for the high, non-parallel ceiling. Rectangular rooms can be difficult to work with.

 

[50nstillhifi]

I have a cathedral, in the living room, my main listening zone for big screen and such. However the system is in the garage. Certainly poses some routing challenges but I love the fact my system is easily cooled in the fall/winter. This is excellent when running the amps open. I also can route to the system remote, garage, and it sounds good.

As for the listening (cathedrals), I have rather enjoyed the volume, filled by properly positioned speakers. I am sure you will find the same. Just one factor I include in filling the room "spatially"... meaning "centering" the stereo image. It need be offset, in my opinion, by the height of the ceiling. But this is nothing you can't compensate for via good balance and EQ adjustments.... not to mention a right pushy main amp .

I suppose this will be interesting in a garage however.. yet I would be more concerned about "creature comforts".. such as lighting, heating, and air.

My garage is insulated and flat top... making it quite easy to heat or cool. So there is no challenge there. Still I would recommend full time venting, in some manner, as garages by design can get "stuffy" right quick!

 

[GearHead454]

I don't know what room shape or ceiling height is best. I tried to research it some time ago and it just made my head hurt. Bouncing back and forth between pure opinion and PhD type white papers.

So anyhow I have my best gear in our living room in an open plan house. Ceilings go from 8' to 17'. It's a big space but not huge. The living room is something like 12' by 25' in plan but, as I said, it's open plan so front hallway and family room expand the footprint by about 100%.

So anyhow the good gear sounds great high ceiling or not. I did try a couple of location for the speakers before I got the sound right.

I would get as much height as you can from a purely aesthetic standpoint it will be a nicer space with high ceilings and your good gear will sound good.

 

[2manyspkers]

Personally I would go with the higher ceiling if feasible, there are some spread sheet worksheets that are designed for acoustical assessment of various sizes and shapes for the room that may offer some guidance on exactly what height offers the best acoustics. Lets also remember that most concert halls, sound studio's, and theaters have high ceilings and good acoustics.
Good Luck with the room, sounds like it will be an awesome space for you !

 

[Crestwood23]

I'm going to go with higher ceiling - thanks for all the input. I did a quick rendering on my iPad - I'd like to do a super modern/industrial sealed concrete floor with rough reclaimed barn siding lumber walls. Built in gear shelf in the front, LP storage on the back wall. Excited to try my Quads in a space like this!

 

[GearHead454]

Crestwood23 I really like your modeling. I do a lot with Sketchup for modeling projects and spaces as well. Shown are two pictures of spaces that may interest you. These were shot with a 15mm fisheye lens and corrected using software so things are stretched a bit.

The photo on the left is the living room I mentioned before. It has 8' ceilings at the right side and 17' foot ceiling just past the ridge beam. This room works great with my speakers where you see them on either side of the TV. I previously had the speakers on the right of the photo flanking the window and it was NOT good. Really NOT good.

The photo on the right is a room over my shop we just built. It is 21' front to back by 27' wide. Ceiling is 13.5' at the peak and about 7' at the eave (my best recollection without measuring). I don't have this room working yet acoustically. Have not really tried anything but right now the old Yammy HT receiver and a good pair of ESS AMT-4 speakers sounds like crap (speakers I have just refoamed and recapped and sound awesome in another room with a great receiver). I don't know enough to analyze what's going on so I don't know if I have committed a mortal sin as far as acoustics go but I think not. I will get the room to work acoustically (to my standards) but I have not had time to fuss around with it yet. First two things I will try is put a nice, big, cheap oriental rug on the floor (rug at least 18'x12') to soak up some reflected sound. I will also bring a good receiver up there. It will be my third listening room (and guitar practice room) and it's away from the house so I have other projects that are more pressing.

 

[Crestwood23]

Crestwood23 I really like your modeling. I do a lot with Sketchup for modeling projects and spaces as well. Shown are two pictures of spaces that may interest you. These were shot with a 15mm fisheye lens and corrected using software so things are stretched a bit.

The photo on the left is the living room I mentioned before. It has 8' ceilings at the right side and 17' foot ceiling just past the ridge beam. This room works great with my speakers where you see them on either side of the TV. I previously had the speakers on the right of the photo flanking the window and it was NOT good. Really NOT good.

The photo on the right is a room over my shop we just built. It is 21' front to back by 27' wide. Ceiling is 13.5' at the peak and about 7' at the eave (my best recollection without measuring). I don't have this room working yet acoustically. Have not really tried anything but right now the old Yammy HT receiver and a good pair of ESS AMT-4 speakers sounds like crap (speakers I have just refoamed and recapped and sound awesome in another room with a great receiver). I don't know enough to analyze what's going on so I don't know if I have committed a mortal sin as far as acoustics go but I think not. I will get the room to work acoustically (to my standards) but I have not had time to fuss around with it yet. First two things I will try is put a nice, big, cheap oriental rug on the floor (rug at least 18'x12') to soak up some reflected sound. I will also bring a good receiver up there. It will be my third listening room (and guitar practice room) and it's away from the house so I have other projects that are more pressing.

View attachment 778653 View attachment 778654

Thanks! Your second room looks very similar to what I had in mind for mine - very nice! I'm sure it will behave acoustically once you get that big rug in there, all that natural light is beautiful but I would think the parallel glass windows would be ping-ponging sound waves back and forth. For "critical listening" maybe you could install some heavy curtains and pull them over the windows for improved sonics. I scored some cheap ASC tube traps a while back and they worked miracles in my old room, I intend on putting them in my new one as well (those are the grey things in the corners of the rendered room).
That room is BIG, maybe the little ESS speakers are not up to the task? That's one thing I am definitely looking forward to in my new space, the ability to use some of the larger speakers in my collection to their full potential.

 

[hjames]

Love the sound of a room with Cathedral ceiling - ours is the best sounding room in the house!
(Back when I had the JBLs and KEFs in the room ...)

 

[GearHead454]

hjames, great listening space. JBLs are awesome! Does the cat qualify as acoustically absorbent ?

Crestwood23:

the little ESS speakers are not up to the task

The little ESS speakers are about 55lbs each! The 15mm fisheye makes them look really far away but they have the well known Heil AMT Tweeter with 10" woofers and handle up to 250w each. I really think it is the old Yammy HT that is lacking. Time will tell.

 

[hjames]

hjames, great listening space. JBLs are awesome! Does the cat qualify as acoustically absorbent ?

Teddy is acoustically curious, for sure ...

Actually, after many years, there is only 1 pair of speakers in the room. I sold the KEFs after I refurbed them.
I played around with a couple sizes of UREI monitors - sold the big ones, the small ones went downstairs.
Oct 2014 I bought jjohnson's Von Schweikert VR-4s (whoa!) & in 2015 sold off the JBL L200s I had customized ...
I will be adding a pair of magnepan MG IICs shortly - Mags sound great 2/3 of the way in a room like this!

 

[50nstillhifi]

For "critical listening" maybe you could install some heavy curtains and pull them over the windows for improved sonics. I scored some cheap ASC tube traps a while back and they worked miracles in my old room, I intend on putting them in my new one as well (those are the grey things in the corners of the rendered room).

Agreed ... there are some notable acoustic treatments which will certainly help "fine tune" the environment. Yet, I can't stress enough the acoustic tuning via the signal source, E.Q., balance, proper bass loading. Often this is the influencing factors for whether or not your "listening area" will sound as you like. Proper adjustment and scaling is somewhat tedious but there is a science behind it.

Just another add-on... another influential factor is standing waves or reflected waves usually caused by overextended bass or extreme high treble settings. Without being a scientist about it (which I am not ), placing these tone settings midway can give you more play, given your like/dislike for the range. I use my power settings to compensate for lost of strength and then adjust E.Q. up/down from there. Also.. and to throw in another consideration, there is DRX...

Of course, any guideline is going to be based on the music you like, whether its the material preferred... and so on

 

[Crestwood23]

Teddy is acoustically curious, for sure ...

Actually, after many years, there is only 1 pair of speakers in the room. I sold the KEFs after I refurbed them.
I played around with a couple sizes of UREI monitors - sold the big ones, the small ones went downstairs.
Oct 2014 I bought jjohnson's Von Schweikert VR-4s (whoa!) & in 2015 sold off the JBL L200s I had customized ...
I will be adding a pair of magnepan MG IICs shortly - Mags sound great 2/3 of the way in a room like this!


View attachment 779166

Nice room Heather! I am excited to try my JBL L300's in my new room, they were a bit overkill for my 10x16 basement! Never heard Maggies, but I've been really loving the Quads I picked up. I would imagine any estat would be happier pulled out into the room, my Quads had to be pretty close to the back wall in my old room but I tamed that with 703 panels. Now they will have plenty of room around them.

hjames, great listening space. JBLs are awesome! Does the cat qualify as acoustically absorbent ?

Crestwood23:


The little ESS speakers are about 55lbs each! The 15mm fisheye makes them look really far away but they have the well known Heil AMT Tweeter with 10" woofers and handle up to 250w each. I really think it is the old Yammy HT that is lacking. Time will tell.

Ah that lens makes them look like mini monitors!

That room is begging for 15" woofers if you ask me, might be interesting to try your Altecs in there at some point!

 

[Crestwood23]

Agreed ... there are some notable acoustic treatments which will certainly help "fine tune" the environment. Yet, I can't stress enough the acoustic tuning via the signal source, E.Q., balance, proper bass loading. Often this is the influencing factors for whether or not your "listening area" will sound as you like. Proper adjustment and scaling is somewhat tedious but there is a science behind it.

Just another add-on... another influential factor is standing waves or reflected waves usually caused by overextended bass or extreme high treble settings. Without being a scientist about it (which I am not ), placing these tone settings midway can give you more play, given your like/dislike for the range. I use my power settings to compensate for lost of strength and then adjust E.Q. up/down from there. Also.. and to throw in another consideration, there is DRX...

Of course, any guideline is going to be based on the music you like, whether its the material preferred... and so on

I understand and respect the "EQ at the source" approach, but I prefer to keep that part of the chain as simple as possible. My preamp doesn't even have tone controls! If I have some bass boom or some peaky high end I prefer to address the issues from the room side of the equation, I am by no means an expert in acoustics so I may be dead wrong but this has worked very well for me so far.

 

[Soundork]

I have cathedral ceilings in my living/listening room and I've never had any problems with it. My back wall is fairly well open and that may make the difference, not sure tho. I just know that I wouldn't change the way my ceiling is as I feel it interacts well with how I have my arrangement set.
In my case I think it is an asset and helps but since there are so many other factors involved it would difficult to gauge what your mileage would be.

I'd second that. I have cathedral ceilings in my living room and speakers facing the non-open wall is not an option, because whatever you do the sound coming out of them is horrible. Sounds more like a PA system from the WWII times. Speakers facing an open wall works very, very well and you will be satisfied.

 

[hjames]

Just got a pair of Magnepan MG-IIc speakers from jjohnson yesterday - met him halfway between DC and Richmond after work for the transfer. Got them home, screwed on the feet and stood them up in the plant room ...
These are amazing and definitely keepers (I'll get the box in the shed/storage over the weekend)