~1100 hours on Ortofon 2M Red stylus: is it near the end?

EmmEff

New Member
Realistically, should I be seeking a replacement sooner or later? I hear mixed opinions about the life of a stylus. Some say 1000 hours, some say 2000 hours.

I do not have the equipment and/or know-how to inspect the stylus for wear myself.
 
Well... I think it sounds fine. However, I am getting a lot more noise lately than I've ever had before. I am not sure if it's related, but nothing else in my setup has changed and it's very apparent.

It might be cartridge misalignment (if that happens over time) but I want to eliminate some of the variables.
 
Cartridges don't generally misalign themselves, unless the cantilever has taken some damage or become skewed, or the mounting screws are loose or you have changed something. At 1100 hours for a bonded elliptical stylus, you are looking at replacing it sooner rather than later.

Ortofon themselves estimate stylus life as ~1000 hours with no noticeable loss of performance, after which the stylus starts to loose performance until about ~2000 hours when it's at the end of it's life. I think these figures are for a best case scenario, where records are clean and stylus is kept clean at all times. I don't know which cartridge/stylus they had in mind for those estimates, it might have been for a more advanced stylus shape which would theoretically last longer.

If you plan to just get a replacement 2M Red stylus, why not get it right way, so you have a point of reference you can compare the old one against - it might have lost more than you know, as the changes have been gradual and you'd become accustomed to them as they happen. Or if it really is still performing like new, then you could just keep using it until you start to hear a difference between that and the new one.
 
Cartridges don't generally misalign themselves, unless the cantilever has taken some damage or become skewed, or the mounting screws are loose or you have changed something. At 1100 hours for a bonded elliptical stylus, you are looking at replacing it sooner rather than later.

I figured the cartridge wouldn't become misaligned. I am very careful with my equipment, so it definitely has not been mishandled.

Ortofon themselves estimate stylus life as ~1000 hours with no noticeable loss of performance, after which the stylus starts to loose performance until about ~2000 hours when it's at the end of it's life.

Honestly, I have not noticed any loss of performance but maybe it has been gradual and I haven't noticed.

If you plan to just get a replacement 2M Red stylus, why not get it right way, so you have a point of reference you can compare the old one against - it might have lost more than you know, as the changes have been gradual and you'd become accustomed to them as they happen. Or if it really is still performing like new, then you could just keep using it until you start to hear a difference between that and the new one.

I am thinking I want to either upgrade to the Blue stylus or try something else (ie. AT 440MLa or Denon DL-110), so anything new wouldn't be a good comparison with what I have now.

Thank you for your insight.
 
Personally, I would change it ASAP. By the time you start hearing issues, it may be too late and be doing damage to your records. If you are hearing noise that was not there before, I would be safe and discontinue use. Maybe rather than getting a new stylus, get one of the cartridges you mentioned. There will be a great difference in tracking performance.
 
I am thinking this is what I will do. At least now, I have that benchmark established and if the new cartridge is not any better, I can eliminate that as the cause.
 
Is it clean?
a needle gathers a LOT of gunk over time, not all of it easy to remove dust. This happens especially if your aren't in pristine condition, and they very rarely are :)

try and give it a very thorough cleaning session, using a soft brush, some alcohol, and a LOT of patience. Take care to (very carefully!) clean it sideways and from front to back - this is usually discouraged since the chances of damaging the cantilever by mistake are considerably higher.

When clean - try it again. also, have a good look at it through a magnified glass, to see how 'pointy' it is.

after such use, the needle might be dead, but might also still be in great shape
 
Is it clean?
a needle gathers a LOT of gunk over time, not all of it easy to remove dust. This happens especially if your aren't in pristine condition, and they very rarely are :)

try and give it a very thorough cleaning session, using a soft brush, some alcohol, and a LOT of patience. Take care to (very carefully!) clean it sideways and from front to back - this is usually discouraged since the chances of damaging the cantilever by mistake are considerably higher.

When clean - try it again. also, have a good look at it through a magnified glass, to see how 'pointy' it is.

after such use, the needle might be dead, but might also still be in great shape

I religiously use the Ortofon stylus brush as well as a Magic Eraser usually between records. Should I use alcohol with the Ortofon stylus brush or something else? I have read that Ortofon recommends not using any liquid on it's stylii.

I'll have to pick up a magnifying glass.

Thanks.
 
Ortofon themselves estimate stylus life as ~1000 hours with no noticeable loss of performance,

I the old days they were saying 500 hours.

I their instruction manuals they used to say this:

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This is a scan from a OM30 super manual.



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i spoke with Ortofon about this last month I believe. I have an Ortofon Quintet Bronze that I use on one of my tables. Their answer was this. The advanced styli profiles will show no wear till the 1000 hour mark. After that they begin to deteriorate, and at 2000 hours you will find it to be compromised and compromise the performance of the cartridge. Now this is an expensive cartridge like an Anna, Winfield, or Cadenza series. So they recommend a rebuild then.

As far as the wear characteristics of the more basic stylus profiles.....that I did not ask. But I think you are going to get a similar response. With a bonded stylus I would not use alcohol as a cleaning solution at all. You risk damaging the bond between the diamond and the mounting surface. Heck you risk that with any cartridge, even a nude diamond mounted to a drilled cantilever.

Hope this helps.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
I religiously use the Ortofon stylus brush as well as a Magic Eraser usually between records. Should I use alcohol with the Ortofon stylus brush or something else? I have read that Ortofon recommends not using any liquid on it's stylii.

I'll have to pick up a magnifying glass.

Thanks.

I follow Ortofon recommendation for their cartridges and never use alcohol or liquid while cleaning their stylus.

Actually ... I never use alcohol while cleaning my other stylus on my AT440Mla. I use a commercial wet stylus cleaner on that ... the cleaner lasts for years & years (even with daily use).
 
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I have read that Ortofon recommends not using any liquid on it's stylii.


Thanks.

Regularly? certainly not.
Once every 500 hours or so? It won't harm the stylus at all, and will get dirt of it, which other (milder) substances can't.

Again - there are no rules here. I had a Grado gold stylus, which was completely dead, as in rounded, after some 700 hour of listening to many old, dirty, sometimes scratched records. The replacement stylus is reaching 1500 hours, of manly clean records, and looks as new as it's first day, under len (and sounds so!).
 
Regularly? certainly not.
Once every 500 hours or so? It won't harm the stylus at all, and will get dirt of it, which other (milder) substances can't.

The issue is not the stylus, it's the glue that holds the diamond on the cantilever.
 
In terms of stylus cleaning I tend to favor the non liquid cleaners also. I was fortunate to have bought a Zero Dust when I bought my ZYX cartridge. I find it to be an effective way to clean a cartridge, and use it for every side. About once a month I will use a bit of LAST liquid stylus cleaner on the cartridges, but that is it. I wipe it onto the stiff stylus cleaning brush, and then clean front to back. Last is reported to be a non alcohol version, and therefore does not degrade any of the bonding agents between the stylus and the cantilever.

Now if I wanted to get a stylus cleaner that is less expensive than the Zero Dust, I would look to the Moongel pads. I have some here, and while it works on the same principal as the Zero Dust, it does not seem to be made of the same materials. But it does work well, is inexpensive, and easy to find. Others like the Magic Eraser option, but i prefer the Moongel.

But clean records and stylus are very important to getting the longest possible life out of the diamond.

Regards
Mister Pig
 
Now if I wanted to get a stylus cleaner that is less expensive than the Zero Dust, I would look to the Moongel pads. I have some here, and while it works on the same principal as the Zero Dust, it does not seem to be made of the same materials. But it does work well, is inexpensive, and easy to find. Others like the Magic Eraser option, but i prefer the Moongel.

But clean records and stylus are very important to getting the longest possible life out of the diamond.

Regards
Mister Pig

Huh? What are Moongel Pads?
 
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