16 bit 44.1 Khz CD player sounds better than 24bit/192 Khz Player?

Discussion in 'Digital Sources' started by Sam08861, Jun 22, 2018.

  1. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

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    I've been slowly getting digital back into the mix and have been reading up on CD players and which ones are supposed to sound good.

    Got a Luxman D-100 to match a Silmic II recapped R-115 receiver. Was using a Panasonics RP-62 DVD player that has a 24bit/192 khz audio DAC (not sure what kind it is) and had read that anything with such specs should sound leagues better than an old 80s 16bit machine.

    However, the Luxman sounds much smoother and just as detailed. Some shots of the guts...

    Chassis
    IMG_0994.JPG
    Electronics
    IMG_0990.JPG
    IMG_0993.JPG
    edit.. not the DAC, correct one is TD6709N and hidden behind wire above
    IMG_0991.JPG

    The black capacitors are lableled 'Marcon' I think and the blue ones 'shoei'
    Can't tell what the brown one is or the metallic green ones.

    Any suggestions if it's worth recapping or even needs it? Any potential modifications?
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2018
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  2. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    Sir, you're going to catch hell for stating that the old machine sounds better to you than a new machine.

    I have about 10 vintage cd players. Some suck, others are stunning.

    I'd say relube the slides, rebelt if needed, and enjoy. You COULD recap it, and likely gain a bit, but why bother?

    For my money, my Sony Playstation slays them all. Others will likely disagree.
     
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  3. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

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    No love for the 80s BPC? Lol, I thought this might provoke some attention! Hadn't thought to relube the slides and will do that now.
     
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  4. Tim64

    Tim64 Super Member

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    Newer does not always equate to better, implementation of the DAC and supporting components is critical in the final sound. An example is the Phillips players from the 80's and early 90's they have a fair following with that swing arm laser assembly and the TDA1541 DAC.
     
  5. RichPA

    RichPA Don't drive angry Staff Member Super Mod Subscriber

    I don't doubt this at all. In my experience, most DVD players suck at playing CDs. And the D/A specs mean little - power supply, jitter suppression, and output stage matter more, I think.
     
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  6. robert_kc

    robert_kc AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    I found a review that described the Panasonic RP62 DVD player as “the least expensive progressive-scan DVD player released in 2002”. This 16 year-old DVD player does NOT appear to support playing 24bit/192kHz music files.

    If you’re playing a CD, the recording is 16bit/44.1kHz.

    If you want better than CD quality, I suggest that you try a modern digital player that can play hi-res deliverables such as SACD, Blu-ray, Pure Audio Blu-ray, Ultra HD Blu-ray, plus downloaded hi-res (24bit/192kHz or 24/96) FLAC and DSD. Modern high-quality recordings that were originally recorded in hi-res (24/192 or DSD) are commonly available in these consumer formats.
     

     

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  7. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

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    Robert, I think you're confusing what is being asked. I know CD's won't magically get a higher birrate and I've already got a solution for high bitrate sources. (I use an Oppo BDP-105 for my home theatre setup and use this to play those formats)

    Here I'm referring to the conventional wisdom that is often stated that a 24/192 DAC (not file) will play better than a 16/44.1 DAC in a CD player. Tried playing back CDs with the Oppo hooked up, and the Luxman still sounds better than that. Much sweeter sound. Likely less accurate EQ, but much more pleasing and smoother.

    Btw, am using the receivers 'CD Direct' feature in all cases.
     
  8. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    I have a couple TOTL units, or close to the top.

    Yamaha CDX-1100U - Sounds about as sweet as ANYTHING I've ever heard. 30 years old, still rocking.
    Magnavox CDB-482 (I think, I forget) Sounds sweet as sugar. $5.00 and came with a remote.
    Aforementioned Sony Playstation - Output is lower, but no listener fatigue, even after hours of listening.
    Sony CDP-302 = A delight to watch, and sounds pretty good. A tad dry, but nice.
    Marantz CD-63SE = Given to me by another AK'er, needing belts, and resoldering of broken joints around the rca's. Sounds magical.
    Technics SL-PS700 - Fantastic sounding cdp that just keeps on going. MASH circuitry is really something
    Denon DCD 1500 II - Needed a belt, cleaning, and refelted the clamp. A SERIOUS cd player back in the day
    Toshiba XB35 - Sort of a sleeper, but has the magic!

    As you can see, I love these old things. What I DON'T love is the terrible 1 bit Pioneers. Lots of them around, all sound harsh to me.

    Now those 6 disc magazine ones with the honeycomb chassis?? Those are rather nice. Little bit of grain on the high end, but otherwise nice.
     
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2018
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  9. robert_kc

    robert_kc AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Yes, I understand, but I think some readers may be confused by your title that describes the DVD player as a "24bit/192 Khz Player". :)

    I'm glad you have a CD player you like.
     
  10. restorer-john

    restorer-john Addicted Member

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    The D-100 is an early machine (1986) using a twin channel Toshiba D/A converter and a respectable output stage/LPF. It's performance should be very good.

    There is no 'conventional wisdom' relating to a 24/192 D/A converter outperforming 16/44 in a CD player. If you like the sound, leave it alone- there is nothing you need to replace or tweak in that machine.
     
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  11. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

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    Nice collection onwardjames! Ive been stalking a Yamaha 1000+ series CD player, but it seems the word is out on these, lol.

    Got the lux for $20 so no worries of the irreplaceable laser goes out and I'll keep lurking the estate sales, goodwill, etc.
     

     

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  12. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

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    Thanks restorer-john, good to know.

    robert_kc, agreed, the thread title is misleading without reading the post.
     
  13. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    Thank you, Sam! It cost me plenty, and that was over 14 years ago. Still, the Yammie, is a beast.

    As for lasers failing, I think I've had only ONE truly die. It's far more likely to be belts, cleaning, alignment, etc. Just ask Dr*Audio. He taught me most of what I know, right here on AK.
     
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  14. E-Stat

    E-Stat Addicted Member

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    First of all, you're playing 44/16 content in both cases. Not surprised that an $89 model was bettered.

    Understand that the analog section of any player/DAC makes the most significant difference when playing at the same resolution.
     
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  15. SoCal Sam

    SoCal Sam Lunatic Member

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    Excellent point and one often overlooked. Analog section is just as important as digital section. Both are in the signal path and both should be given equal attention. Here is the my Panasonic DVD-H1000. Analog section is on the left. I compared the sound to my former Sony CDP-XA7ES and it was close enough that I did not regret selling. The H1000 sells for peanuts today.

    [​IMG]
     
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  16. E-Stat

    E-Stat Addicted Member

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    Do you know what op amps it uses?

    I replaced the OPA2134s with Burson FET modules in the garage system's Music Hall DAC 25.3 for a nice improvement in transparency and focus.
     

     

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  17. SoCal Sam

    SoCal Sam Lunatic Member

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  18. E-Stat

    E-Stat Addicted Member

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    Thanks. The NJM4580 is found in Behringer gear as well. Definitely room for upgrades as the thread suggests.
     
  19. onwardjames

    onwardjames Hoardimus Maximus Subscriber

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    Okay, so now I'm hunting for that Panasonic DVD-H1000.

    Not on that auction site. Dang.

    For E-stat, when you replace op-amps, do you use a socket as well, so that future upgrades are easy, or just solder into place?
     
  20. SoCal Sam

    SoCal Sam Lunatic Member

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    I've read online that the DVD-H1000 features Burr Brown PCM 1704K. Good stuff, if true. I had the cover off and could not spot the familiar BB chip. Maybe it is a Panasonic re-brand. Anyways, opamp upgrade should pay dividends in that beefy analog section. I bought the last two on you know where. One was DOA. I have three total, two working and the parts machine which has a dead laser. I'm good so the field is clear. Also consider the DVD-H2000 which is champagne and has a "Direct Audio" mode switch that the H1000 lacks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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