2013 Shelby GT-500 gets 650 Hp & 600 lb/ft torque!

This has turned into a classic Camaro/Mustang battle. Both sides claiming victory. Lots of "But if..." responses.

Classic, classic, classic Camaro/Mustang - Ford/Chevy war. Wonderful stuff, wonderful feud!

PM, I concur........on any given 'Sunday' , man this is great stuff, just like back in High School in the sixties !
 
PM, I concur........on any given 'Sunday' , man this is great stuff, just like back in High School in the sixties !

Yes this is all great fun, who would have guessed we be reliving the horsepower wars of the 60s-70s. The upside of this is that the big three showed their best engineering developments and automotive products during this period. This could be the renaissance the us auto industry and us manufacturing in general needs. :thmbsp:
 
Yes this is all great fun, who would have guessed we be reliving the horsepower wars of the 60s-70s. The upside of this is that the big three showed their best engineering developments and automotive products during this period. This could be the renaissance the us auto industry and us manufacturing in general needs. :thmbsp:

Would have loved to have been at the Goodwood Festival of Speed this weekend to see the GT500 run the hillclimb.
 
Yes this is all great fun, who would have guessed we be reliving the horsepower wars of the 60s-70s. The upside of this is that the big three showed their best engineering developments and automotive products during this period. This could be the renaissance the us auto industry and us manufacturing in general needs. :thmbsp:

I'm smack dab in the middle of the industry, guys. My fifteen year old business offers specialty coatings to the motorsports industry (ceramic, powder, dry film lubricant) and caters to exactly to the kind of customers you see in the video a few posts back. I work with all level of aftermarket tuners and many of my customers are at the cutting edge of late model tech. But here's the problem that gets in the way of a strong resurgence for the muscle car industry.....the kids (and an industry that can't connect with them). One, there is no "affordable" muscle car any more. The 5.0L LX fox body Mustang was the last affordable muscle car. THAT was the platform that catapulted late model aftermarket performance and from that we got the LS1 powered f-body GM pony cars (Firebird, TA, and Z28) which brought about a second wave of growth for the pony car aftermarket. Those cars could be had for under $20K in the used market all day long....and a not much older 5.0L Mustang for under $10K. Hell, a base Z28 could be had brand new for just a little over $20K. Throw $5K at it for new heads, a cam, headers and full exhaust, and a computer tune and that car was over well over 500HP to the wheels. A new SS is what, $33K...and just a little over 400HP? With a y-generation that's geeked out on smart phones, facebook, gaming and all that other virtual bullshit, not to mention broke and lazy, there's just not the testosterone, piss, and vinegar young male chompin' at the bit to haul ass there once was. However, I think if the manufacturers could come up with a stripped down model with the HP option powerplant, like the 5.0 LX Mustang from the late 80's, we might just have a chance to see another real pony car war (that means in the streets not just in magazines) take place. The ingredients are there, they just need to remove all the icing and garnish. Trouble with that is nobody makes as much money on a stripped down performance version, so the goddamn bean counters get to ruin everything. Sorry bastards.

-Michael
 
Last edited:
Now that I think back (geez, has it been that long since all the f-body tuner shops shut down....good Lord) I recall the cars that were hittin or bustin 500 on the dyno next door had a 4" crank as well...so that's a bit more involved and certainly takes you out of "bolt on" territory. However, I do remember some very aggressive tunes with the stock crank and fairly streetable cam profile makin' 475 or a little better to the wheels. You know and I know it's no challenge or great expense to get 500+ crank hp out of a stock bottom end LS1 (even 10+ years ago).....and that was (and still is) pretty serious street performance for a far cry less than what a new base SS cost.

Point is, the last generation F-bodies and Fox-body Mustangs were an affordable performance platform and from that was birthed a thriving aftermarket industry for those cars/powerplants. It's having that aftermarket activity, with a price of admission that is attainable by someone making less than 30K a year, that nourishes interest and enthusiasm amongst the masses (particularly the twentysomethings) and creates a broader demographic for the manufacturers....not to mention planting a seed of enthusiasm that cultivates a customer base that will have more buying power in the future so you can continue creating products for that niche. So yes, there is a pony car war of sorts taking place, but it's a little on the exclusive side. IMO, a real pony car war is more inclusive and, just like back in late 60's, late 80's-early 00's, fosters an affordable aftermaket segment that allows greater participation. I can assure you much of the technology in GMs current crop of HP hardware is here and available because of the aftermarket activity created by the LS1 starting back in the late 90's. Same for the Mustang but to a lesser degree since the H.O. 5.0L happened two decades ago and the modular motor didn't see the aftermarket success of the GM LS powerplants. I have concerns wrt how long this wave of performance offerings will last if there's not more participation than what I currently see among the younger demographic.
 
Last edited:
No low cost stripped down base high performance options means youth are not on board. Almost $40 K upwards for these cars to sing is beyond youth, and the insurance costs piling on for young males make these vehicles beyond their means in this modern economy. We need a $15,000 base V8 Camaro or Mustang to get young on board, and with CAFE getting stricter and safety and mandatory options, too pricey. The Honda Civic tuners and relatives are the new musclecar to youth now.
 
Last edited:
No low cost stripped down base high performance options means youth are not on board. Almost $40 K upwards for these cars to sing is beyond youth, and the insurance costs piling on for young males make these vehicles beyond their means in this modern economy. We need a $15,000 base V8 Camaro or Mustang to get young on board, and with CAFE getting stricter and safety and mandatory options, too pricey. The Honda Civic tuners and relatives are the new musclecar to youth now.

Well, they were from the late 90's 'til about five years ago, when the import aftermarket started to lose steam. Now that segment has started to wither. Why? Same reason...no stripped down, affordable performance platform. And I don't think we'll ever see a new v-8 pony car for $15K again...the 5.0L LX back in the late 80's was a little more than that. I think $25-30K is a reasonable, and accessible, figure.

It's interesting to me that the v-6's the big three are putting in the base pony cars make very respectable power, but nobody is interested in tweaking them. One of my customers, a late model Ford tuner, developed a single turbo kit for the 6 cyl mustang and it was makin' 450HP with only about 15 psi of boost, yet they couldn't hardly give the kit away. You have to wonder if the v-6 has a stigma or something. I don't know why it would...the Buick 3.8L turbo used in the Grand National had/has a huge cult following. But still, I don't see any sort of aftermarket momentum for the 6-cylinders. Absolutely nothing comes through my shop....and if it's even a little bit popular, I'll see it. There are some friggin' sweet supercharger kits for the 6-cyl Camaros that put them well over 400HP...and the car sounds badass (a lot better than a Viper!). Yet I've heard of no one in my circle installing or tuning one. At $6K plus, and another $1.5K for install and exhaust, you're gettin' damn close to bein' able to get into an SS. But none of this changes my observation that havin' a fast, bad ass late model muscle car simply isn't a priority for most twentysomething males. Am I just out of touch? Are you guys seein' this, too?
 
Last edited:
Well, they were from the late 90's 'til about five years ago, when the import aftermarket started to lose steam. Now that segment has started to wither. Why? Same reason...no stripped down, affordable performance platform.

It's interesting to me that the v-6's the big three are putting in the base pony cars make very respectable power, but nobody is interested in tweaking them. One of my customers, a late model Ford tuner, developed a single turbo kit for the 6 cyl mustang and it was makin' 450HP with only about 15 psi of boost, yet they couldn't hardly give the kit away. You have to wonder if the v-6 has a stigma or something. I don't know why it would...the Buick 3.8L turbo used in the Grand National had/has a huge cult following. But still, I don't see any sort of aftermarket momentum for the 6-cylinders. Absolutely nothing comes through my shop....and if it's even a little bit popular, I'll see it.

Do you work on Nissans? The VQ35 (350z, G35, Maxima, FX35, M35) has quite a few options for boost, from the Stillen supercharger to the far more popular JWT twin turbo kit. The main issue for most fledgling tuners is the complexity of the modern ecu. Manufacturers are locking them down more and more, warranties are excluding all engine mods, and a really clean pro kit install can push $10K. Full custom with stand alone engine management can reach $20k. That's a lot of dough for the people who want it most (young males).

Another pretty popular V6 tuner platform is the biturbo 2.7L in the Audi S4, A6, and Allroad. A plug and play turbo swap can push 400awhp pretty easily...

I forgot to mention the VR38dett in the R35 Nissan GT-R. Guys are getting 700awhp on stock internals with that monster...
 
Do you work on Nissans? The VQ35 (350z, G35, Maxima, FX35, M35) has quite a few options for boost, from the Stillen supercharger to the far more popular JWT twin turbo kit. The main issue for most fledgling tuners is the complexity of the modern ecu. Manufacturers are locking them down more and more, warranties are excluding all engine mods, and a really clean pro kit install can push $10K. Full custom with stand alone engine management can reach $20k. That's a lot of dough for the people who want it most (young males).

Another pretty popular V6 tuner platform is the biturbo 2.7L in the Audi S4, A6, and Allroad. A plug and play turbo swap can push 400awhp pretty easily...

I forgot to mention the VR38dett in the R35 Nissan GT-R. Guys are getting 700awhp on stock internals with that monster...


I see some turbo kits for the G35's and 350z's come through from time to time. Most of the import action right now is with the Evo and GT-R crowd (I have a GT-R front engine cover, intake, and intercooler tubing in the shop from these guys http://www.t1racedevelopment.com/ for powder coating). The Toyota 2JZ is still kicking, as is the Nissan SR20. But it's nothing like it was ten years ago when Integras and Civics and 240's were friggin everywhere. All these new performance cars cost too much money for your average twentysomething.

I'm thinkin' I might need to start a new thread.
 
Last edited:
Haven't read the whole thread but I like this Mustang. It's simply amazing how much they've improved.

Years ago, I was really into this scene, attended HIN and spent tons of money....$6k just for brakes. I was first inline to purchase the s2000 and 350z. Now I'm older, just not as interested anymore and don't have time. I'd rather have a rat/hot rod these days. My 2 cents.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom