2216, what’s a good speaker

Asking this question... is like asking what's your favorite icecream flavor.. you will get a variety of opinions for sure!

Suggest you speak with persons into vintage or home theatre for basic audio needs and then get an audition or come back and ask specifics about the speaker you wish to find.

Audio is really "subjective" and based on musical taste.. not to mention as others have noted.. budget.
 
one wants to have plenty of headroom to handle transients. This moments can drive a weak amp to clip and damage the speakers.
 
Ummmm...which AR speakers are you talking about? None of the good ones I know of could be categorized as "super high efficiency"...or even "high efficiency".

find some nice used ARs or Altecs and listen to the joy of super high efficiency speakers built for that box of yours. You'll likelu have to rebuild the crossover circuit, but that's easy peasy stuff.
 
AR 2's. AR never published data on them that I can find, not even the ones that I have. MY daughter's 1030-1060 powers the Altecs just fine. I have used the AR 2s on a 1060 and a 140. obviously a lot more kick from the 140. Some info on the net that units with old caps pull 86db but the company itself claimed they were highly efficient. After recapping mine, they hit a mid volume much faster using the 140 to drive them, thus I think they are likely (as built) around 91db.
 
Hi all,
To be honest I’m a bit of a virgin when it comes to stereo/Hifi so this might seem a bit obvious. I got a 2216 reciever lately and have it hooked up to a pair of Wharfdale Diamond 9.1 speakers. Everything sounds fine but the 2216 puts out 16W per channel and the Wharfdales recommend 20W minimum. Are these components a mismatch and if so what kind of issues could I encounter? I’d really like to keep both, if it’s not gonna be too much of an issue.
Can you recommend more suitable speakers? Room is 16ft x 12ft.
Is there anything that I can do to boost the 2216 output?

You cannot increase its output power. If you want to be able to listen at high volumes with the 2216, you will need speakers with a higher sensitivity rating. A 3db gain in sensitivity is equivalent to doubling the power of the amp.

There is no problem using your 2216 with the Wharfedales, assuming that it can drive them loud enough to meet your needs without significant clipping. That would be around 80-82dB of average output at a normal listening distance in a normal room.

You need to have at least 9dB of reserve power/headroom to accommodate peaks in the music signal. Each 3dB change = a doubling (or halving) of power.

Your speakers, with their rated sensitivity of 86dB, need 1 watt of constant input to hit 86dB, measured at 3 feet, or 80dB measured at six feet. At 1 watt of steady/average output, you would have 12dB of "headroom" for transients....thereby minimizing the chances of significant clipping and its attendant distortion.

Speakers with a rating of 92dB would take that up to 86dB at six feet, using the same amount of power from your amp, and maintaing the same headroom.

Or, you could accomplish the same result with an amp rated at 60 watts.

Simply put, if the 2216 meets your needs with your current speakers and you aren't driving the amp into high levels of distortion, all is good.

If not, your choices are a) more sensitive speakers, or b) a more powerful amp. In either case, I would suggest a change of at least 6db...in other words, speakers with a sensitivity of at least 92dB, or an amp rated at 60 watts per channel (RMS rating). Otherwise, the change/upgrade won't buy you much.
 
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87-88dB, at best. Certainly a long way from "super high efficiency".

What data are you using? People assume that because of how much power they will handle. I have JBLs with 96db rating--by JBL, and they can handle 250 watts per channel. They will run fine on far less than that--though I don't because I don't have to.
 
This might help you. I have a Marantz 1030 I recently got for my shop. The price was right. Didn’t need the Mac 1700 I was using. Paid $100 plus $30 shipping. I am using a pr of Avid 2 ways up front with a pr of Small Advents I got here on Bartertown. The Advents sound really nice. Got these for $100. Running both pairs with plenty of volume.

That said, there a lot of speakers out there. ARs, had the 2AX’s. Also, Dynaco A25s. Just a few suggestions. These low power amp/receivers sound surprisingly good. The acoustics in my shop are very good, considering an open ceiling,concrete.blocks and concrete floor. Was playing an LP version of Eric Clapton’s Unplugged. It was outstanding. Just sat there and listened. The little Marantz rivaled my 2270 and 4270 that I use upstairs. Good luck in your search!
 
yeppers--I have 1030 in my shop powering some Bose 301's. plenty of bass and very nice highs. Your list of speakers is a good one.
 
What data are you using? People assume that because of how much power they will handle. I have JBLs with 96db rating--by JBL, and they can handle 250 watts per channel. They will run fine on far less than that--though I don't because I don't have to.

I have no idea what you are talking about. Anyone who tries to determine sensitivity based on power handling capability is being silly.

You can run just about any speakers with just about any amp. No news there. From a power standpoint, it comes down to whether or not the amp can deliver desired loudness without significant clipping. I explained that already, above, in an earlier post.

However, I do have a lot of experience with the classic AR speakers, having owned just about all of them and having done extensive restoration and repair work on at least another 30 pairs of them.

I've also developed good relationships with several AR experts, including one who worked at the Cambridge facility for many years. These gentlemen and others at the CSP site have worked long and hard to keep the AR legacy alive, to preserve the company's history, and to develop restoration strategies to best retain the original sound qualities of these wonderful old speakers.

You can certainly use Google to find threads in which some of these experts are quite clear about the sensitivity of the classic series as all being in the 85-88dB range, which is in keeping with my own findings in comparing their output to my Vandersteens, which are rated at 86dB.

Additionally, if you dig deep enough, you will find some sensitivity measurements done a few years ago by an AR enthusiast whose name I don't recall. Perhaps someone else here can point you to his data.

Finally, here is a link to a chart of AR performance data compiled, I believe, by AK member rxdx.

http://www.aphenos.net/electronics/speakers/klh/all_ar.htm

Bottom line, the OP can certainly use his little amp to good result with any of the classic AR speakers, assuming he has no desire to listen at higher levels than I described earlier. Heck, he can use a 5 watt amp with no problems...again, assuming it can drive the speakers loud enough to satisfy him while maintaining at least 9dB in reserve to minimize clipping of transients.

But to my original point...you touted AR speakers as being "super high efficiency". This is not the case, nor is it even close to being the case.
 
That 1030 is a sleeper. The small Advents are working well. Got them from an Aker. Replaced the grill cloth on them. Cabinets are vinyl, good in my shop aka man cave. Refaced a pr of Dynaco A25 free from the original owner.
 

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If not, your choices are a) more sensitive speakers, or b) a more powerful amp. In either case, I would suggest a change of at least 6db...in other words, speakers with a sensitivity of at least 92dB, or an amp rated at 60 watts per channel (RMS rating). Otherwise, the change/upgrade won't buy you much
You cannot increase its output power. If you want to be able to listen at high volumes with the 2216, you will need speakers with a higher sensitivity rating. A 3db gain in sensitivity is equivalent to doubling the power of the amp.

There is no problem using your 2216 with the Wharfedales, assuming that it can drive them loud enough to meet your needs without significant clipping. That would be around 80-82dB of average output at a normal listening distance in a normal room.

You need to have at least 9dB of reserve power/headroom to accommodate peaks in the music signal. Each 3dB change = a doubling (or halving) of power.

Your speakers, with their rated sensitivity of 86dB, need 1 watt of constant input to hit 86dB, measured at 3 feet, or 80dB measured at six feet. At 1 watt of steady/average output, you would have 12dB of "headroom" for transients....thereby minimizing the chances of significant clipping and its attendant distortion.

Speakers with a rating of 92dB would take that up to 86dB at six feet, using the same amount of power from your amp, and maintaing the same headroom.

Or, you could accomplish the same result with an amp rated at 60 watts.

Simply put, if the 2216 meets your needs with your current speakers and you aren't driving the amp into high levels of distortion, all is good.

If not, your choices are a) more sensitive speakers, or b) a more powerful amp. In either case, I would suggest a change of at least 6db...in other words, speakers with a sensitivity of at least 92dB, or an amp rated at 60 watts per channel (RMS rating). Otherwise, the change/upgrade won't buy you much.
Thanks Spark1, a very succinct useful response that actually makes sense.
 

And I note that nothing is listed for the 2A other than that it is rated at 25 watts. Oh my. All of that just to avoid my comment on the 2A that he could power it with his little Marantz amp just fine. Since no data exists that you can show, then I do belive it has a much higher efficiency rating than 81db or whatever it was you originally stated. Once recapped, they were much more responsive at lower watts being fed to them. Restoring them is easier than tuning a bicycle for goodness sake, no magic in that. producing more SPL with less watts indicates to me that their efficiency went up when recapped. But then again, I only know how to power a speaker with wattage from an amp, so, I might be wrong.
 
That 1030 is a sleeper. The small Advents are working well. Got them from an Aker. Replaced the grill cloth on them. Cabinets are vinyl, good in my shop aka man cave. Refaced a pr of Dynaco A25 free from the original owner.

Advents were very nice speakers in their day. Well respected.
 
And I note that nothing is listed for the 2A other than that it is rated at 25 watts. Oh my. All of that just to avoid my comment on the 2A that he could power it with his little Marantz amp just fine. Since no data exists that you can show, then I do belive it has a much higher efficiency rating than 81db or whatever it was you originally stated. Once recapped, they were much more responsive at lower watts being fed to them. Restoring them is easier than tuning a bicycle for goodness sake, no magic in that. producing more SPL with less watts indicates to me that their efficiency went up when recapped. But then again, I only know how to power a speaker with wattage from an amp, so, I might be wrong.


Here is your quote:

"Find some nice used ARs or Altecs and listen to the joy of super high efficiency speakers built for that box of yours"

The old ARs had sensitivities in the mid to upper 80s. You will find no one with even a passing familiarity with these products who would characterize them as being of high sensitivity. Are you really wanting to take the position that the classic AR speakers are highly efficient?

On that note, here is a "vintage" article from the Journal of the Boston Audio Society, authored by Peter Mitchell. In it, he provides sensitivity data (actually, efficiency data) for many speakers of the day. Take a look at the AR units listed. BTW...if anything, the AR2ax was/is a bit MORE sensitive than the AR2a.

I clearly explained, in an earlier post, that the OP's 2216 - or something with even lower power capabilities - can serve quite nicely with low sensitivity speakers, assuming it can drive the selected speakers to desired listening levels without clipping (or at least without significant clipping). Obviously, the lower the speaker sensitivity, the lower he will be able to drive his speakers before clipping distortion becomes an issue. So, please do not misrepresent my comments.

As regards replacement of crossover caps; to be clear, are you claiming that the sensitivity of a speaker will be materially increased beyond its original design by doing so?

If so I would certainly like to understand how this occurs (leaving aside issues of failed caps, obviously). Yes, the ESR of electrolytic caps can and often does rise significantly as the caps degrade over time...so replacing them can certainly get the output of the affected drivers back to its original level, but no higher.
 
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Amazing on the Marantz forum nobody has spoken about Marantz speakers. I have both Marantz Imperial 5s and 6s and either one of them will be great with your 2216. My first Marantz receiver was a 2220B and it ran the 6s to awesome levels.

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This test from the early 70s shows the 6s with a sensitivity of 95db. As the article states, an amp with 15 to 20 watts will be just fine for a medium size room.



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Sold these new^^^^^. 0weed several Imperials. Several 7s and a pr of 5s. My sister still has one of my 7s. Not a bad combination. Don’t see many of these though.
 
Love the 5s and 6s...the 7s? Not so much.

The 7s seemed ok until I moved on. My Marantz’ (2270,4270, and 1030) like JBLs and my small Advents better. Spent a lot of years matching things up. The acoustics of a room also can influence how things sound. The bench system in the basement with open ceilings and cement surroundings everything sounds good. That little Marantz sounds better than it’s big brothers on a lot of my records. All three use Dual 1219s/Shure M55s. Turntables of choice. Something about that room makes for good sound..
Again good luck with the search.

Eric
 
The 6s were really nice with the 1060 but I just added a 250 amp and am using the 1060 as a pre amp. The extra power is nice but really not needed.....but it is nice to have.

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