5.1 reciever suggestions to use with AR9's for my first HT

[Crestwood23]

I was just given a 60" Sharp Aquos at work, and have misc speakers and a sub laying around, so I figured it might be fun to try to set up my first "real" surround sound home theater in my basement. I know next to nothing about this world as my passion is much more music than it is film/video. Here's what I have so far at my disposal:

60" Sharp Aquos LC-60LE550U TV

Crown XLS 2000 amplifier (use as supplemental power for the power-hungry AR9's?)

Acoustic Research AR9 (main front speakers)

Dynaco A25 speakers (back surround or center channel opt 1?)

Spendor SP/2 speakers (back surround or center channel opt 2?)

Velodyne 12" servo sub (not sure I'd really need this as the AR9 do big bass).

So what's a solid 5.1 receiver that would complete the picture here? The AR9s can take all the power they can get, and are bi-ampable - could I use the on board amp of the receiver to power the mids and tweets of the AR9's and then feed the same line level signal to the Crown amp and use that on the woofers? Would this be possible?

I'd be fine with a used unit in the $300 ballpark.

 

[StimpyWan]

Ya' better start reading through this thread. Your question is already being answered!

Me, I always recommend Yamaha. But, make sure the AVR has preamp outputs, so you can patch in your outboard amp. And for your budget, you should be able to find the mentioned Yamaha RX-V1. Maybe a RX-Z1, or RX-Z7. Then, a RX-V3000 is another good receiver than will be in budget. Oh yea, DSP-A3090's and DSP-A1's. Older now, but still very good. And always keep an eye out for a Yamaha RX-Z9. It's the ultimate Yamaha AVR. A very beefy amp design, even multi-channel. They are fast going back up in price. You'd have to get really lucky to get one in your range.

Also, I have a 60" Sharp too. It's a Quattron model, with the 4 color red/green/blue/yellow design. It helps with my poor color vision. I have AR90's as well. My Yamaha RX-A3030 AVR has no problems driving them.

 

[Crestwood23]

Ya' better start reading through this thread. Your question is already being answered!

Me, I always recommend Yamaha. But, make sure the AVR has preamp outputs, so you can patch in your outboard amp. And for your budget, you should be able to find the mentioned Yamaha RX-V1. Maybe a RX-Z1, or RX-Z7. Then, a RX-V3000 is another good receiver than will be in budget. Oh yea, DSP-A3090's and DSP-A1's. Older now, but still very good. And always keep an eye out for a Yamaha RX-Z9. It's the ultimate Yamaha AVR. A very beefy amp design, even multi-channel. They are fast going back up in price. You'd have to get really lucky to get one in your range.

Also, I have a 60" Sharp too. It's a Quattron model, with the 4 color red/green/blue/yellow design. It helps with my poor color vision. I have AR90's as well. My Yamaha RX-A3030 AVR has no problems driving them.

Thanks for pointing me in the right direction Stimpy, I knew there must be a similar thread on this subject somwhere, I'll go check it out.

 

[Audiofreak71]

Stimpy is right on track with the mentioned receivers above and the thread he linked is a really good one that I have said my peace in as well. I own the RXZ-1 and an Onkyo TX-nr1000 both are excellent I give the nod to the yamaha, I have a thread about that as well. I have owned the RXZ-9 and Stimpy is correct it's an extremely good receiver one of the best ever made and none made like it since so if you can find one in your price range don't hesitate to scoop if up. There are many Totl Uber receivers that are in your price range you just have to be proactive and look. Good luck and if you need any help don't hesitate to ask.

P.S. I am also running a Velodyne sub and HGS 12 and they work excellent in filling in the ultra low end even though my Vandersteen 2ce signature ii's get very low, it adds much more depth and dimension to movies by using both.

Audiofreak71

 

[Crestwood23]

Stimpy is right on track with the mentioned receivers above and the thread he linked is a really good one that I have said my peace in as well. I own the RXZ-1 and an Onkyo TX-nr1000 both are excellent I give the nod to the yamaha, I have a thread about that as well. I have owned the RXZ-9 and Stimpy is correct it's an extremely good receiver one of the best ever made and none made like it since so if you can find one in your price range don't hesitate to scoop if up. There are many Totl Uber receivers that are in your price range you just have to be proactive and look. Good luck and if you need any help don't hesitate to ask.

P.S. I am also running a Velodyne sub and HGS 12 and they work excellent in filling in the ultra low end even though my Vandersteen 2ce signature ii's get very low, it adds much more depth and dimension to movies by using both.

Audiofreak71

Excellent thanks!

One other question for you and @StimpyWan, let's say I wanted to forego the 5.1 surround and just have 2 front speakers, a center fill, and a sub (3.1?). Are there any "Uber receivers" that are even a generation earlier than the 5.1's that have great sound (and an HDMI) but lack surround capability? Or should I just stick with 5.1 even if I don't end up using the rear surround speakers?

 

[StimpyWan]

Excellent thanks!

One other question for you and @StimpyWan, let's say I wanted to forego the 5.1 surround and just have 2 front speakers, a center fill, and a sub (3.1?). Are there any "Uber receivers" that are even a generation earlier than the 5.1's that have great sound (and an HDMI) but lack surround capability? Or should I just stick with 5.1 even if I don't end up using the rear surround speakers?

You can configure just about any set up that you would want to try with these receivers. So, a 3.1 system is fine. But, the reason that the majority of these "Uber" receivers are in your price range, is the fact that they "lack" HDMI. No HDMI, no high price, regardless of what they originally retailed.

There are work-around's to needing a HDMI AVR. First, for video, run the signal straight to the Sharp. For audio (that supports the latest audio codecs), that's a bit more complicated.

You need 2 things for surround without HDMI. First, the AVR must have multi-channel analog "inputs". Now, most importantly, you must use a Blu-Ray/DVD player that offers multi-channel analog outputs, for the audio. All channels, main, center, surround, and sub. That audio would then be patched into the multi-channel inputs on the Uber AVR. That's how users keep these beasts going, in a HDMI world. Not exactly complicated. Just a specific set of requirements. Those requirements also mean that you will most likely need a Blu-Ray player from OPPO. One of the only (if not the only) companies still producing new players with the needed analog outs for surround. There are other older players that had multi-channel outs. You'd have to know which, and hope you could find one, within budget.

Oh, if you want an Uber AVR with HDMI. That's of course doable. Probably not within your budget. Or not without getting lucky on craigslist, or the like. You could find an Onkyo in budget. But many of those receivers are suspect, due to the likely hood of failing internal HDMI signal boards.

 

[StimpyWan]

One other thought; I wish you could find a Yamaha Aventage AVR. Those are the newest Yamaha designs, with HDMI support, and have the Yamaha YPAO set up software. It would be smart enough to test and learn what your speaker set up was, and automatically configure itself to run whichever speakers that were connected to it.

All Aventage receivers use the "RX-A" prefix in their model numbers. The RX-A*** 3 digit models are more 'entry level', but still very good. The Uber Aventage AVR's all have 4 digit model numbers, RX-A****. The RX-A1000 range cames first, then the RX-A2000's aremnext, and currently, the top is the RX-A3000 range. Look for those, if you can? Mine is a RX-A3030. Yamaha is now up to the RX-A3070, as their TOTL AVR. While I could have bought a later model, the RX-A3030 was the last TOTL Yamaha AVR with all of the audio and videos inputs and outputs, that supported any format. Yamaha went to all HDMI only, after my 3030. I wanted laser disc support, so I stuck with the 3030.

So, do an eBay search on "Yamaha RX-A" and see what matches. Just be sure to look for models with HDMI, preouts, and multi-channel inputs (if still desired). With HDMI, multi-channel inputs aren't now necessarily required. Just the preouts, for your external amps.

 

[Crestwood23]

You can configure just about any set up that you would want to try with these receivers. So, a 3.1 system is fine. But, the reason that the majority of these "Uber" receivers are in your price range, is the fact that they "lack" HDMI. No HDMI, no high price, regardless of what they originally retailed.

There are work-around's to needing a HDMI AVR. First, for video, run the signal straight to the Sharp. For audio (that supports the latest audio codecs), that's a bit more complicated.

You need 2 things for surround without HDMI. First, the AVR must have multi-channel analog "inputs". Now, most importantly, you must use a Blu-Ray/DVD player that offers multi-channel analog outputs, for the audio. All channels, main, center, surround, and sub. That audio would then be patched into the multi-channel inputs on the Uber AVR. That's how users keep these beasts going, in a HDMI world. Not exactly complicated. Just a specific set of requirements. Those requirements also mean that you will most likely need a Blu-Ray player from OPPO. One of the only (if not the only) companies still producing new players with the needed analog outs for surround. There are other older players that had multi-channel outs. You'd have to know which, and hope you could find one, within budget.

Oh, if you want an Uber AVR with HDMI. That's of course doable. Probably not within your budget. Or not without getting lucky on craigslist, or the like. You could find an Onkyo in budget. But many of those receivers are suspect, due to the likely hood of failing internal HDMI signal boards.

Great info and very helpful, thanks again Stimpy. I also need a DVD/CD player and was looking at the OPPO's, now I know what to look for if I'm going the "no HDMI" route. Thanks again!

 

[StimpyWan]

Great info and very helpful, thanks again Stimpy. I also need a DVD/CD player and was looking at the OPPO's, now I know what to look for if I'm going the "no HDMI" route. Thanks again!

Glad to help. And I hope it does help?

Also, I just peeked at eBay. Some of the first AVR's that popped up, were a Yamaha RX-A700 (272859144474) and a RX-A800(23249556590) (neither mine). They both have YPAO, HDMI, preamp outputs for all channels, and multi-channel inputs too. And in budget! They could be contenders, if you can't find an Uber you like?

Good luck.

 

[KentTeffeteller]

Does Not Exist! Separates the only viable option. You need minimum 150 Watts/Channel into a reactive 4 ohm load. Hardly any 2 channel receivers ever made could do it either very well, and the ones which could cost very serious money back then. My brother had AR 9 and his then Pioneer SX 1050 couldn't drive them well loudly for very long without distress. And it ate some output transistors trying. The SX 1280 probably had a chance. If that 1970's Pioneer could not do that. The AR 9 is very power hungry. And a demanding impedance load to boot. AR3a and then some to drive. A AVR with preamp outs and good separate amplifiers will do a better job with the AR and not fail you. Use the AVR as a preamp-processor.

 

[StimpyWan]

A AVR with preamp outs and good separate amplifiers will do a better job with the AR and not fail you. Use the AVR as a preamp-processor.

That's what I've been recommending too. Any decent AVR should work well for that. I use my old Amber Series 70 amp, or my Hafler DH500, with my AR90s, through my RX-A3030, and it works extremely well like that. Excellent sound.

 

[Audiofreak71]

That is true what Kent was saying to a degree, those speakers are a tough load to drive and your budget isn't allowing you to get a say Yamaha RXZ-9 or a Totl mega receiver from the 70's that would drive those speakers with no problems. Going tge Seperates route would be the best way amplification wise because you can get alot more watts and headroom with a Seperate amp, but also since your looking at going the surround route it would be very expensive and beyond your budget to do. Therefore your options are limited unless you can stretch your budget a bit.

Also to add to that, I have driven a pair of very inefficient Maggie's (a friend of mine) with an Onkyo TX-nr1000 and a B&K 507s2 and they had no problems pushing the Maggie's to extreme levels without breaking a sweat.

Audiofreak71

 

[Crestwood23]

Does Not Exist! Separates the only viable option. You need minimum 150 Watts/Channel into a reactive 4 ohm load. Hardly any 2 channel receivers ever made could do it either very well, and the ones which could cost very serious money back then. My brother had AR 9 and his then Pioneer SX 1050 couldn't drive them well loudly for very long without distress. And it ate some output transistors trying. The SX 1280 probably had a chance. If that 1970's Pioneer could not do that. The AR 9 is very power hungry. And a demanding impedance load to boot. AR3a and then some to drive. A AVR with preamp outs and good separate amplifiers will do a better job with the AR and not fail you. Use the AVR as a preamp-processor.

Oh yes I'm aware that the AR9's are power pigs, which is why I was going to use my Crown XLS 2000 on the woofers. I thought if I could find an AVR that had 100-150wpc I could use that on the HF of the 9's, and then bi-amp with the Crown on the bottom.

 

[bigx5murf]

This isn't a popular opinion. But with speakers like you've listed. I wouldn't bother running a center channel. Just front and rear LR + subwoofer. The reason being once you setup a system to use a center, 75-80% of all information will come out through the center, while the rest does backup duty. Without a center, your front LR will output the majority of information, and they'll be able to phantom a center long as you sit in the sweet spot. The benefit of the center is better phasing for people sitting far right, and left.