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9.2 Home Theater Speaker Recommendations

Discussion in 'Home Theater & Video' started by srm51555, Jul 5, 2018.

  1. donprice

    donprice Wound up workin' at a gas station.... Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,377
    Hmmm...wonder if any of JBL Synthesis speakers are in the price range? Probably not.

    The JBL Studio 580 appears to be JuniorJBL approved and rather reasonably priced on Amazon.

    You can have a lot of fun with used and/or DIY speakers (JBL drivers, of course) but that probably isn't an option for the FIL.
     
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  2. damacman

    damacman Blown and Injected Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,599
    Location:
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    Guys, those are terrible numbers given the published specifications ...
     
  3. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,084
    Location:
    Blue Ridge Mountains!
    Which numbers; wattage or distortion? Or multichannel watts?

    I've read many of the various home theater magazines over many years. The S&V test figures (for the 3060's multichannel output) is fairly typical, and actually better than most. Some well regarded (and more expensive) AVR's have tested worse. But still, magazine review testing isn't reflective of actual home use. Most surround mixes don't have all channels powered flat out. Sound levels vary constantly, never taxing all channels at once, or for short duration's, when they do.

    Oh, here's Yamaha's published specs for the 3070. To me, not so bad.

    Amplifier Section Channel 9.2
    Rated Output Power (1kHz, 2ch driven) 165 W (8 ohms, 0.9% THD)
    Rated Output Power (20Hz-20kHz, 2ch driven) 150 W (8 ohms, 0.06% THD)
    Maximum Effective Output Power (1kHz, 1ch driven) (JEITA) 230 W (8 ohms, 10% THD)
    Dynamic Power / Ch (Front L/R, 8/6/4/2 ohms) 175 / 220 / 295 / 410 W

    Though, I do wish they would post 5 channel output figures at well. It is after all, an AVR.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2018
    srm51555 and Spiceman50 like this.
  4. srm51555

    srm51555 Active Member

    Messages:
    114
    Location:
    Wisconsin
    I forgot about the 580's! They have gotten good reviews from what I have read in the past. We will have to sit down and take a closer look at all of the speaker options presented in the thread.
     
  5. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
    Blue Ridge Mountains!
    There are lots of very good internet web direct speaker companies too. Most offer very good value. Audioholics magazine has a list of the better companies. One of these could be an option as well.
     
  6. twiiii

    twiiii Addicted Member

    Messages:
    6,221
    Location:
    west Texas
    I have disagree with those who say you won't likely do this or that with your system. Let me tell you everyone pushes their system to hard from time to time and with HT systems with all the exaggerated LFE and special sound effects you will be pushing system far harder than you can imagine unless you have very efficient speakers. I was in the repair branch of the company for 10 years, but even though when I moved on to installation and then engineering and design when systems started failing and there didn't seem to be a reason or an easy fix I was they called on. 4 ohm Speakers with less than 96 db efficiency were one cause of many amps failing. Speakers failing was usually caused by amps clipping because they weren't designed to perform as promised, which is the case here. Another issue was folks were trying to use home Stereo speakers most of which didn't have the necessary dynamic range with power available or if there was sufficient power for the level the speakers couldn't handle it. I admit I use NAD AVR with my M&K speakers in my RV and the listening space including the Kitchen is about 13 wide and 22 ft long. The systems runs out of power even with NADS soft clipping circuits. I haven't blown any speakers, because I back off the levels at the first sign of stress. All three front speakers are identical, this saves me a lot of grief as the sound levels match the sound spectrum is the same from all three speakers and the subwoofer is strong enough to match the 5 total speakers. But I have watched numerous movies lately even on my big system at home where I normally use around .5 watts for the spoken word and the peaks and low frequency signals are driving my amps to over 100 watts per channel. Thats a totals over 1000 watts guys and speakers are rated at 95.5 db at 1 meter and I'm not counting the power to the side speakers which could be another 100 watts. So don't ever get the idea that you won't be using your power. Speakers are not resistors for sure and are always more demanding with their reactive load requirements that resistors don't have. If you will read the speaker tests at Stereophile and HiFi News you will find very few speakers that have a friendly impedance curve anymore. Speaker designers assume everyone is using SS amps that can drive below 4 ohm loads and truly there are very few AVR that can successfully for any extended period. Just look at the AVRspecs of the unit under discussion. There are reasons Better Klipsch, JBL, M&K, HT speakers systems are expensive. Sure you can make an older EV, Altec or Frazier system work, but thats because they were designed to produce 115 to 120 db with out stress when configured properly. So do your home work and if you have make a compromise do it with understanding, we almost all have make choices we would rather not make. Remember speakers are always the most important selection that you make first.
     
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  7. damacman

    damacman Blown and Injected Subscriber

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    twiiii is correct - the dynamic range available from today’s movies on Bluray warrants real amplifiers. Not imposters hiding behind marketing speak.
     
  8. StimpyWan

    StimpyWan AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,084
    Location:
    Blue Ridge Mountains!
    To me, it's a matter of inclination and budget. What fits where, and at what I want to spend. So for me, an AVR works. I'm not claiming it will work for everyone, nor would I. If I had a dedicated listening or home theater room, I'd opt for multiple dedicated 20amp outlets, separates, including stereo and or monoblock amps, heck, maybe even a rear projector set up. But, I live in a home, with a family, that like to listen to music and watch movies, as much as I do. So, a simpler AVR is totally acceptable and appreciated. By all. Though my Yamaha has far better sound quality than it receives credit for. Perfectly capable for our needs. But I'm not asking it to drive Infinity Kappa 9s, Apogee Scintilla's, or something from Wilson. Just simple AR's and NHT's. And for that, it works. Most likely, for the OP's father-in-law too. Especially since it's what he already owns.

    Now, back to speakers. Any more ideas? :D
     
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  9. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,113
    On the amp issue, there are tons of people here running vintage receivers that put out 35-65wpc and I don't see anyone deriding that gear. Different strokes.

    At 89db/w@1m 50w is a lot of sound, and again, even with all the dynamics in current movies, it's not all full spectrum and not all 100% in every channel all at the same time. Add in that 99% of home theater setups are crossing everything below 80-100hz to a dedicated sub with it's own amp... 50wpc is likely plenty adequate for your average living room.

    On the speaker front, is PSB making anything decent these days? Back when my dad put together oro first HT I was pretty impressed with their performance/$.
     
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  10. awillia6

    awillia6 Super Member

    Messages:
    1,244
    Back in the day, an audiophile managed to make himself head of a government testing lab and provided basically unlimited R&D to a nascent Canadian speaker industry. Saner heads have prevailed since...
     
  11. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    Sad. :(
     
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  12. Putterman

    Putterman Super Member

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    I first would point out that engaging the 'soft clipping' of the NAD reduces the output wattage significantly. This from a Stereophile test of the NAD C372,

    With its commutating output-stage voltage rails and the option of Soft Clipping, the NAD's maximum output power will depend on the test circumstances. Driven with a continuous tone without Soft Clipping engaged, the amplifier's plot of THD+N percentage against output power (fig.4, lower trace) was conventional, with the THD buried in the noise until just before the point where the output waveform began to square. At clipping (1% THD+N), the NAD gave out 190W with both channels driven (22.8dBW), slightly higher than the specified 180W. Engaging Soft Clipping increased the distortion above a few watts output due to the waveform rounding that occurs, and reduced the continuous 1% power to 125W into 8 ohms (21dBW, fig.4, upper trace).

    There is another solution to increasing output besides getting more efficient speakers which the OP may or may not like. This is using a power amp and hooking it up to the preamp outs of the Yamaha. I would also suspect that the father in law of the poster isn't likely to be listening at headbanger levels, but you could test it out by using a smartphone meter app or the old radio shack sound meters in tha theater room. I'm currently listening to Allman Bros. Live at the Fillmore at what I consider to be loud levels, but it only measures at 85 db.

    Finally, another suggestion one that's likely to piss you off. You might want to break up that passage into sections, e.g.

    I have disagree with those who say you won't likely do this or that with your system. Let me tell you everyone pushes their system to hard from time to time and with HT systems with all the exaggerated LFE and special sound effects you will be pushing system far harder than you can imagine unless you have very efficient speakers. I was in the repair branch of the company for 10 years, but even though when I moved on to installation and then engineering and design when systems started failing and there didn't seem to be a reason or an easy fix I was they called on. 4 ohm Speakers with less than 96 db efficiency were one cause of many amps failing. Speakers failing was usually caused by amps clipping because they weren't designed to perform as promised, which is the case here.

    Another issue was folks were trying to use home Stereo speakers most of which didn't have the necessary dynamic range with power available or if there was sufficient power for the level the speakers couldn't handle it. I admit I use NAD AVR with my M&K speakers in my RV and the listening space including the Kitchen is about 13 wide and 22 ft long. The systems runs out of power even with NADS soft clipping circuits. I haven't blown any speakers, because I back off the levels at the first sign of stress. All three front speakers are identical, this saves me a lot of grief as the sound levels match the sound spectrum is the same from all three speakers and the subwoofer is strong enough to match the 5 total speakers. But I have watched numerous movies lately even on my big system at home where I normally use around .5 watts for the spoken word and the peaks and low frequency signals are driving my amps to over 100 watts per channel. Thats a totals over 1000 watts guys and speakers are rated at 95.5 db at 1 meter and I'm not counting the power to the side speakers which could be another 100 watts. So don't ever get the idea that you won't be using your power.

    Just a suggestion and please don't hurt me.:eek:
     

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