A little spiritual guidance this time

Discussion in 'Fisher' started by Masonavenut, Aug 23, 2017.

  1. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    Hi gents
    As a Fisher neophyte I am deluging my brain with numbers and trying to remember and make sense of everything Avery ever did. Needless to say it's a daunting task.
    In the spirit of Robs thread about how you fell in love with Fisher, I'm curious about different components like amps and tuners and what you lust for and why. The integrated amp/tuners are kind of easy to figure out but not so much the stand alone stuff.
    Hope I haven't missed a thread about this.
    Thanks for your time.
    Marc
     
  2. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,140
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    It sort of spins out into how you grew up and what your parents had as to what you "lust after". Ain't no Jimmy Carter's here. My parent's were both Navy and when Mom got discharged (honorably) for a pregnancy (yes they discharged all women for pregnancy in the mid 50's, married or not!) they got a RCA TV Record Player combo used. That actually lasted up until about 1963 when Dad could no longer economically fix it, so off to Sears for a "portable" record player that could be used by the two eldest of the kids(me and one sister) while mom or dad was in the room. It had to weigh 40# easily. Nobody in Navy Housing had any stereo gear to speak of other than what some of the ET's or EM's had cobbled together, and generally they were single. I do remember one married Chief (no kids) who had some serious separates. We were allowed to peek into the room and listen to it, but weren't allowed within 10ft of it. Most of it was late 50's FISHER mono gear that he cobbled into a stereo system. Custom speaker's,etc. This was about 1966. In '68 they got a Morse Electronic's console in some type of spanish provincial. UGLY AS SIN, but played loud enough for us kids who beat the dogshit out of it when mom and dad not home. It lasted up into the mid 80's. By then I had gone Navy and seduced by the stuff in the Navy Exchange, but in the states didn't get the same breaks as the guys who hit the NAVEX in Yokusuka or Saigon, or Guam. As I liked listening to FM STEREO at the time, and had a pair of KOSS PRO4A's i bought in high school I got a PIONEER SX-434. Jump ahead to 1982, got married and started raising 2 sons. The PIoneer was stored and we had table radio's. So about 1995 I broke out the PIONEER and found my Marantz 4G speakers had basically self destructed in the Md. Humidity and heat (they were in the attic). So off to Ratshack for some Minimus 7's. I started getting a hankering for a console about 2008 and started looking around on the net, and found a FISHER Custom Electra VIII (1965 model with Hybrid amp), in a Western DC Suburb. Original Family and it had been cared for and was still working. $65.00 later I had my 1st Fisher. Gave it to the wife just to shut her up. Then another 65', this time a Futura shows up and traded a Hallicrafters S-85 for it. There are now 8 or 9 Fisher consoles (depending on whether you count the 510/610 consolette and the 560 companion as one or two consoles) in a 1100sqft house. Overall total is 14. 6 of the 8(or9) are up stairs. The two downstairs are parts carcasses.

    I'm not a big fan of separates, and like receivers more. None of the FISHER's I have rate more than 35-50wpc rms, nor do any of my PIONEER's, or Sansui's except my SX-939. I DO like separate tuners and will hook them into the receivers AUX port just to hear the difference between tuners.

    So mainly I'm a console guys with receivers as backup's.
     
  3. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    I really enjoy hearing these stories. Thank you Larry.
    I'm so impressed with these machines, they really hit home with me. I love the fact that someone had to build them by hand and they aren't stamped out by some robot.
    I relate them to my cars which I built with my own hands.
    They have a soul that you can hear and feel. The stories of how and why we covet them are .......... well wonderful.
     
  4. audmod01

    audmod01 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    957
    Location:
    Tioga, TX
    I think most people who bought separate integrated amps and tuners were looking for the ultimate performance that they could afford for the money they were investing. Receivers tend to have some design compromises, but represent a very good investment for most people. I have some of both and each has its strong points. Since we are dealing with vintage equipment that usually requires some restoration effort, try to find an approach that satisfies your desire for performance and fits your pocketbook. Keep in mind that no matter which approach you choose the cost of restoration can vary widely. That is why most of us do the restoration ourselves. Having to hire someone else to do the work can be prohibitively expensive if you are on a limited budget. There are plenty of people here who can help you in restoration if you decide to take the plunge.

    Joe
     
  5. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    That's pretty much why I was thinking about separates. Kind of a way for me to dip my toe in without a dense jungle of stuff to screw up.
    From what I can see, separates are a little less dense so a bit easier to understand.
    And again referring back to cars, a little performance isn't a bad thing, eh?
     
  6. audmod01

    audmod01 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    957
    Location:
    Tioga, TX
    Masonavenut;
    Yes separates tend to be not so crowded underneath and from that standpoint are easier to work on. Any heat generated gets spread out over a larger area too and that tends to help longevity of parts. Among my Fisher restorations the most congested was the 500-C that I restored. My most recent was a 202-R tuner, which although complex, was not too difficult to work on as its physical layout was well thought out and executed by engineers and factory assembly personnel.

    Do you have some specific units that you believe will work well for you?

    Joe
     
  7. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    I've been looking at quite a few but I don't have any practical knowledge of how they work, sound wise as well as physically.
    That was the guidance aspect of this thread, what to look for.


    Marc
     
  8. vendo81

    vendo81 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,510
    Location:
    California
    The Fisher receivers are wonderful but I've always preferred separates. I like the fact that using a Fisher preamp gives me the option of trying out many amplifiers/tuners of other brands, as well as Fisher. If you want a matching Fisher amplifier or tuner you have a vast selection to choose from. You can listen to the sweet sounding, low powered amplifiers or the high powered amplifiers that have the punch to rattle the cones of almost any speaker you want to try. You can dial in the performance you are looking for and don't get stuck with any part of the system you don't like....you just change it. I've found the Fisher 400-CX2 exceptional in every way. I'm usually using it with a Fisher SA-100, McIntosh MC30 or Craftsman 500 mono blocks as I've found the combination both exceptional sounding, and I can listen to them for many hours at a time without fatigue. They are my daily drivers. On holidays, or when audio friends drop over I'll swap out the low powered amplifiers with something with 50 watts or more per channel. Many of the high powered amplifiers have a sound you can't get with lower power but I do sometimes feel fatigued after a few hours of listening. I've had friends bring over some great sounding power amplifiers for a listen and it's real easy to swap out the amplifiers. Breaking separates down to a preamp/amplifier over an integrated may seem like overkill to many, but for me it's the only way to go and has allowed me to get the maximum performance out of my system.

    If it's a Fisher integrated amplifier you are looking for there are many really good ones out there. I've found the KX200 or the early X202 as good as integrated amplifiers get and if you listen to FM or AM the Fisher tuner selection can keep you searching for quite a while. If you do decide to get a receiver you really can't beat the Fishers. Besides the Sansui 1000A I really haven't found a tube receiver I prefer.

    Best of luck with your new system!
     
  9. dcgillespie

    dcgillespie Fisher SA-100 Clone Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,942
    Location:
    Ball Ground, GA
    In my own experience, Fisher receivers are not the warmest running equipment by a long shot. The tall front panel allows for more air to circulate within the cabinet, which is further enhanced by the larger rear opening. Granted, there is more circuitry in a receiver, and FM RF tubes can run quite warm. But compared to the main heat producing (output) tubes, the added heat from the tuner section is relatively small.

    By comparison, I think it can be ably demonstrated that the hottest running equipment is an upper tier integrated amplifier, such as an X-202B. All the primary heat producers are there, packed into -- by comparison -- a very tight fitting cabinet, with much less air to circulate within the cabinet, and a much smaller rear opening (and especially so when the height of the transformers is considered).

    This is one of the main reasons that I prefer true separates. Preamps produce relatively little heat, tuners produce heat but nothing compared to that of a power amplifier, and power amps -- where all the real heat is generated -- can be swapped out according to power needs or preference, and hidden away with a fan if need be. True separates also permits (but doesn't always produce) the lowest signal to noise ratio as well. If space is limited, then a receiver is hard to beat. But if space permits, then a true separates system will always be my preference.

    Dave
     
  10. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    First let me start today's post with a smiling shake of the head. I don't know what audio gods are out there but evidently they want me to experience integrated stuff before I venture out into separates. As some may remember from my first intro thread I pilfered a 400 off of eBay for what I thought was a fire sale price. So I am already on my way. It is presently being restored and improved by Tom Ishimoto.
    So yesterday I got a FaceTime call from one of my best mates. I mention that it was a FaceTime call because he had a bewildered look on his face. He knows that I'm into Fishers so the call goes something like this,"hey Hunter, (my last name) I was out in the barn rooting around through some boxes and I found this Fisher in a box. I don't remember buying it or where it came from. You want it?"
    After I picked my mouth up off the floor I got it to say, uh huh.
    I'm a pretty pragmatic guy but it's sure weird when the universe shows you where you're going.
    Anyway here it is in all its glory.
    Have a good day, I am.
    Marc

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    Last edited: Aug 26, 2017
  11. mibag6

    mibag6 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,057
    Location:
    Duluth, Mn
    Very nice!
     
  12. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Marc; How about some under the kilt shots. The topsides look real nice. And the EH7591's look good too, so there is the possibility it's been at least partially upgraded.

    Go down to Home Depot and get some Nylon Wire cable clamps in the appropriate size for the antenna. probably 1/2" or 5/8".
    Larry
     
  13. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    Here you go Larry. Looks to me like someone's been in here. I'm judging that off of those new looking black caps. IMG_0450.JPG IMG_0451.JPG IMG_0453.JPG IMG_0454.JPG IMG_0455.JPG IMG_0456.JPG IMG_0457.JPG
     
  14. larryderouin

    larryderouin Do I get Food, Med's, or more gear this Month? Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    BAD JU-JU here. Whoever installed those caps DID NOT install them correctly. They are connected directly to the old caps, while increasing the total capacitance, does nothing for the originals if they were starting to break down. Correct way is to mount the new ones on a terminal strip next to the old cap, and remove the lead from the old section and attach it to the new cap's + terminal. Then extend any interconnecting resistors to the next section. I would suggest STRONGLY that this mess be redone correctly before either the original cap blows out, or something worse happens. In other words, DON'T plug it in until this is FIXED! The terminal strips can be mounted on the separator panel running down the middle.

    2 other options are
    1.) gut the can and restuff with Nichicon UCS Pencil style caps.
    2.) Purchase custom Made 800c Filter Capacitor Kit from Hayseed Hamfest.
    https://hayseedhamfest.com/collecti...r-800-c-re-cap-kit-4-cans?variant=11819981831
     
  15. Masonavenut

    Masonavenut New Member

    Messages:
    22
    Location:
    Winnetka, Ca.
    It will go directly to Mr. Ishimoto without being plugged in. Thank you.
     
  16. jdsalinger

    jdsalinger Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    668
    Location:
    Kansas City, MO
    The transformers on that thing are the largest I've ever seen!! Wow. Congratulations.
     
  17. AlTinkster92

    AlTinkster92 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,066
    Location:
    NC
    Very very nice 800C, with a little work it should sing again and look great too! Dave G re did mine a few years ago and it still gets regular use.
     

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