A week with the Yamaha B-2X

M Jarve

Audio Geek and NGE Freak
Now that I have my amplification setup squared away, I'm not really pursuing any new roads, amp-wise. For my situation, the four hk775's is about as good as I'm going to get. Still, it's nice to keep a hand in the game, as it were, and dabble with other kit.

Last night, as we were listening to ELP on a modest, but very well performing system, Mark and I got to talking about Yamaha's amps from the same era as the amp we were listening to (an Adcom GFA-535 from doucanoe). I asked what he thought of certain models, shared my experience with a couple, and he suggested I take home one of his 3 B-2X's to live with for a while.

The unit in particular is not quite stock, as it had been slightly refurbished and modded by our own Nakdoc, as Mark recalled.

I just finished disconnecting the 4 h/k's, and made room for the B-2X on the rack, and hooked it all up. The little bit I've listened to has me excited to hear more. Unfortunately, that will have to wait a bit, at least until Dad is done with his afternoon nap.

As per usual, more thoughts to follow.
 
In order to sort of establish a baseline, I switched things around a bit in order to keep the h/k's in the rack for a short while. I moved the B-2X off the rack entirely, and ran three sets of cables to the speakers. Because I normally run 4 amplifiers, I have two runs of cable already (12-ft of 11-ga. Ixos Gamma Geometry for bass, and a 16-ft run of Zu Audio Libtec). The third run was for the Yamaha and consisted of a high quality 12-ga. stranded cable, about 10-ft in length. When run full range, the two sets of jacks on the speakers are jumper'd with a bit of pure copper bus bar.

To sort of condition myself, and to help to accurately note differences, I setup the system in three different ways- first was how I normally run it, with the 4 h/k's. The second configuration was with the Yamaha, and the third configuration was with a solo set of h/k's, with the same 12-ga. cable as was to be used with the Yamaha.

First, I'd like to comment a bit about the construction and some of the details of the Yamaha B-2X for those who may be unfamiliar with this amp. Starting in the mid-1970's, Yamaha latched on to the then still burgeoning idea of Class A solid-state amps. Models such as the CA-1000, CA-1010, and others featured a Class A operation option, which gave up power and economy in exchange for a 10's or dozens of watts of Class A power. This is a feature that continued through the 1980's, and there are more than a few Yamaha amps (integrated or power amps) that have switchable Class A operation. Some others, however, featured Class A operation as a matter of design, seamlessly shifting gears from a low-powered Class A amplifier to a higher powered, more typical Class AB amp. The B-2X is one of those amps. Novel, somewhat, to Yamaha was the actual execution of this Class A/AB design. Some companies used what has been coined "sliding bias", where a circuit follows the input signal and adjusts the bias of the output stage so that it is always "technically" running in Class A, at least to a point. Others used parallel output stages, one operating in Class A, with the other operating as a typical Class AB/B amp. Yamaha's approach (and one that would be used as the basis for their "HCA" design in the MX-10000) was to sort of bridge an independent Class A output stage with a more traditional Class AB output stage. In essence, the Class AB stage acted like a reverse/mirrored load, providing current through the real load (the speaker) to keep the voltage across the Class A stage constant. This meant that all the class A stage had to do is provide voltage (with no real load) and thus, theoretically, could provide Class A operation through to full output. For this reason, unlike many amplifiers, the (-) terminal is not, in fact, connected to the chassis ground, but is instead connected to the output of the Class A amplifier. The (+) terminal is connected to the output of the Class AB amp in more standard fashion. This novel approach to Class A operation aside, the amp is noteworthy for other details. The unit is twin powered, with each channel having its own ~450VA power transformer, twin 22,000uFd caps for storage, (twin 100kFd(!) caps for the class A filter), and build quality and construction that would rival any higher-end amp today. The one sore point, in my view, are the speaker terminals. In theory, the best speaker connector is none at all; that is, when it comes to banana's v. spades v. pins v. bare wire, bare wire is, in theory, superior. In practice, however, bare wire can be unwieldy, and is hardly convenient, especially for those like me that have frequent occasion to swap gear. That said, the terminals used by Yamaha are, in theory, superior to what I'm accustomed to using with my h/k's, but I was not willing to lob the ends off my quite expensive cables to accommodate the Yamaha.

So on to a bit of listening. After I had gone through the three setups listed above to sort of establish a starting point, I put the B-2X back in the rack and allowed it to idle for about an hour. The first disc I listened to after the amp had a chance to cook was a mix disc of various trip-hop and electronica type music (Massive Attack, Sneaker Pimps, and the like). I found more similarities between the h/k setup and the Yamaha than differences. Where there are differences, they're quite subtle, and are not a reflection of either amp doing anything wrong, but rather doing it right, just differently. Overall, the B-2X seems a little softer in presentation, somewhat more akin to an amp that makes use of FET's (MOSFETs or JFETs). In particular, in some instances where the h/k's reproduced a sibilance, the B-2X slightly glossed it over with a bit of harmonic glassiness (like a stronger than normal 2nd harmonic added to the fundamental "s" sound). That's certainly not a problem, but it does tend to make me think that the h/k's are more technically accurate, while the Yamaha is slightly more musically pleasing. Bass is the other area where there is some difference. The bass from the Yamaha seems to be a little more well damped and tighter. Playing a track with a bit of kick-drum has a bit more initial impact and quicker decay than with the h/k's, meaning that on the low-end, their accuracy v. musicality swaps places. Still, on other tracks, they're neck and neck in terms of impact and definition. Indeed, I would be hard pressed with most music to tell which amp was which in a blind test. This is a very good thing for the Yamaha.

But now that I have some comparisons and base-level listening done, the Yamaha will be continued to be used on its own throughout the rest of the week, at least, and will ultimately be judged based on its own merit, and not how well it compares with my normal amps. But, if the first couple hours are any indication, it should prove to be a great amp and a very enjoyable week.
 
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Mike,
Just out of interest sake; Had the B2x been in regular duty before it was loaned to you? I'm only asking along the lines of the possibility that an amp that had sat unused might just need to run for a while before coming into its own. Not saying that explains anything. At all.

It is fascintating, the way that amps form their sonic partnership with differing speakers. Combining to make heavenly music, in some instances, or hellish cacophony in the occasional ill matched pairing.
 
I'm not certain, but I think this is the first time the amp has been used in the last 3 or 4 years. Mark, as you know, has a significant Yamaha collection, and many examples of their power amps. It's a shame, I think, that out of the couple dozen or so amps he has, only the MX-10000 sees routine use, while all the others sit in boxes or otherwise on the sidelines. However, with me going through his collection and performing a bit of maintenance on the pieces while I'm at it, a good deal of it is starting to see the light of day again.

As an aside, I think I'm going to particularly like playing with this B-2X from a purely non-audio standpoint; You see, when my h/k's are idling, it's akin to having a small space heater going all day (together, the four amps consume about 300 watts at idle). The B-2X, even though it throws off a lot of heat, still heats up the room less and consumes only a bit more than half the power at idle. After I shutdown the 775's and just had the Yamaha powered up, the temperature of the room fell about 4 degrees F.
 
Is that the normal heat of the H/Ks? Or has there been re-biasing performed?

Questions, questions. :scratch2:
 
Is that the normal heat of the H/Ks? Or has there been re-biasing performed?

Questions, questions. :scratch2:

In my experience, it's about normal. The external heatsinks do not get much more than warm, but the internal heatsinks for the pre-driver and driver stages can reach in excess of 150-F after the unit has been idling for an hour or so. This is exacerbated by the inadequate heatsinks used for these stages (just a folded sheet of aluminum). As I've commented on many times, h/k of this era ran components of their power amps to red-line and reliability (in the form of thermally stressed parts) was a problem.

That said, in the interest of full disclosure, I do have the bias in the h/k's set just over 10% higher than spec, but this would only affect the final output stage, which is not a significant source of heat.

But, in terms of actual idle power consumption per channel, the B-2X is still the bigger pig, consuming about 80 watts at idle per channel, versus the h/k's 75.
 
In my experience, it's about normal. The external heatsinks do not get much more than warm, but the internal heatsinks for the pre-driver and driver stages can reach in excess of 150-F after the unit has been idling for an hour or so. This is exacerbated by the inadequate heatsinks used for these stages (just a folded sheet of aluminum). As I've commented on many times, h/k of this era ran components of their power amps to red-line and reliability (in the form of thermally stressed parts) was a problem.

That said, in the interest of full disclosure, I do have the bias in the h/k's set just over 10% higher than spec, but this would only affect the final output stage, which is not a significant source of heat.

But, in terms of actual idle power consumption per channel, the B-2X is still the bigger pig, consuming about 80 watts at idle per channel, versus the h/k's 75.

All interesting. The information ties together concept and practical effect. Interested parties (such as myself) want to look deeper and examine the hows as well as the whys. Thank you.
 
Nice report, Mike. Good information about the topology of the different amps and what you're experiencing with the Yamaha. Isn't the B2-X a Vfet deal?

Looking forward to futher reports.
 
Great read! Having not ever used a B-2x in my system I can only imagine the possibilities. I am quite fond of the vintage Yamaha sound. I started the Yamaha journey with an M-4 and C-85. Then two M-4s bridged (using inverted outputs on the C-85). Then an M-2, and later two bridged M-2s. Then I picked up a C-2x and went back to one M-2 (no inverted output on the C-2x). I thought I was quite satisfied with the sound driving my Soliloquy 6.5 speakers until I found a healthy B-2. The C-2x and B-2 combination are simply magical together.

I am curious if anyone has compared the C-2x driving both the B-2x and B-2 amps?
 
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Great read! Having not ever used a B2-x in my system I can only imagine the possibilities. I am quite fond of the vintage Yamaha sound. I started the Yamaha journey with an M-4 and C-85. Then two M-4s bridged (using inverted outputs on the C-85). Then an M-2, and later two bridged M-2s. Then I picked up a C-2x and went back to one M-2 (no inverted output on the C-2x). I thought I was quite satisfied with the sound driving my Soliloquy 6.5 speakers until I found a healthy B-2. The C-2x and B-2 combination are simply magical together.

I am curious if anyone has compared the C-2x driving both the B2-x and B-2 amps?

Yes I have. And Westend, nope, the B-2x isn't vfet.

When I bought mine I already had a few B-2s and the C-1, C-2 and C-2x. I expected the B-2x to be a beast of an amplifier, both physically as well as tonally. I figured giving up some of the vfet B-2 magic, in exchange for the ability to drive my IRS without worry was worth the price of admittance. But that's where the story turns...

After checking bias/offset and installing much better output binding posts, it was time for some experimenting. I was melancholy about losing the tubey liquidity of the vfets, especially since the IRS give back what they are fed. I was quite completely and pleasantly surprised when the B-2x's presentation was much closer to the B-2 camp that I had expected. In fact, at least on the mid/high panels of the Gammas, the differences were minute.

I tried the B-2 and B-2x in a few other configurations and quickly realized that while I preferred the B-2; the B-2x was very close. Sometimes too close to call. But...the B-2x would go into protection with the funky load of the IRS, where the vfet B-2 just loafed along. Who'd be dumb enough to run unobtanium vfets on a speaker that is a known amp-killer? Me. The B-2 does just fine. The B-2x did not. I sold the B-2x for that reason, but for most speakers the B-2x would be a fine choice in my book.

My 2 cents.:thmbsp:
 
Your experience with the B-2X going into protect mode with your Gamma's seems to contrast with Mark's experience (and so far, my own). Mark has used his B-2X's with his Gammas without issue, and so far it seems to handle the 3-ohm load of my speakers quite well; though I must admit, I've not pushed it very hard, being that it's not my amp, though I'm sure I've waltzed into the 100WPC+ territory a few times.

To elaborate on the transistors used, for the most part the B-2X is an all BPJ transistor design, though two FETs are used in the voltage stage. The Class AB output devices are 2SA1333/2SC3370 complementary pairs (~150-w, 30MHz), with two pairs per channel. For the Class A stage, two pairs of 2SA1328/2SC3345's are used (~40-w, 70MHz)
 
Your experience with the B-2X going into protect mode with your Gamma's seems to contrast with Mark's experience (and so far, my own). Mark has used his B-2X's with his Gammas without issue, and so far it seems to handle the 3-ohm load of my speakers quite well; though I must admit, I've not pushed it very hard,...

I too must admit something. I did push it pretty hard :D:nono::D
But I figured that's why I bought it. It did well on all other speakers, but the B-2 at the time bested it (especially when the B-2x fell silent and the little red light was lit:sigh:).
 
Don't misunderstand me though. I was very impressed with the amp overall. Build quality was top notch and the sonics were quite good. But considering it was similar to carrying a black-hole; I expected a bit more of it that it could give.
 
Don't misunderstand me though. I was very impressed with the amp overall. Build quality was top notch and the sonics were quite good. But considering it was similar to carrying a black-hole; I expected a bit more of it that it could give.
That's just what I was hoping to hear, not the black hole part but the build quality reference. Mike said it too, I think this series of gear was all top notch. I've been using a C2a for a few years and I think it's build quality and sonics are the best I've encountered. I wouldn't mind taking a B-2 or B-2x into the fold and see what happens.
 
Yes I have. And Westend, nope, the B-2x isn't vfet.

When I bought mine I already had a few B-2s and the C-1, C-2 and C-2x. I expected the B-2x to be a beast of an amplifier, both physically as well as tonally. I figured giving up some of the vfet B-2 magic, in exchange for the ability to drive my IRS without worry was worth the price of admittance. But that's where the story turns...

After checking bias/offset and installing much better output binding posts, it was time for some experimenting. I was melancholy about losing the tubey liquidity of the vfets, especially since the IRS give back what they are fed. I was quite completely and pleasantly surprised when the B-2x's presentation was much closer to the B-2 camp that I had expected. In fact, at least on the mid/high panels of the Gammas, the differences were minute.

I tried the B-2 and B-2x in a few other configurations and quickly realized that while I preferred the B-2; the B-2x was very close. Sometimes too close to call. But...the B-2x would go into protection with the funky load of the IRS, where the vfet B-2 just loafed along. Who'd be dumb enough to run unobtanium vfets on a speaker that is a known amp-killer? Me. The B-2 does just fine. The B-2x did not. I sold the B-2x for that reason, but for most speakers the B-2x would be a fine choice in my book.

My 2 cents.:thmbsp:

Thanks for the notes. Its hard to imagine an amp sounding as good as my B-2 does in my current system...
 
A few days on, and I'm coming to some more concrete conclusions about the B-2X. First, my initial assessment that it seemed a bit softer in detail and focus has been borne out. Very familiar tracks have more shimmer than they otherwise should on the top-end and vocals, instead of emanating from a single, stationary point (when they should), more seem to appear out of a slightly indistinct area that more or less has focus, but does not. One track in particular, in my normal set seems to have a the voice originating from an ~4-inch area centered on the volume knob of the preamp. With the B-2X, it seems only to come from that general area. It's not really distracting, but it adds an unnatural sense of wandering space where there should be none.

As the amp has continued to re-brake-in (I verified with Mark that it hadn't been used essentially since he moved into the area), its overall character has not changed much. The bass, which seemed initially tight and maybe even a little over-damped has now seemed to loosen up, though it still seems more accurate than the h/k's, but less so than I initially thought.

More to come as I play around.
 
Another couple dozen hours in, with some different music, and LP's at that.

The B-2X is indeed a very fine amp. It seems to possess no particular weakness, and even solo, its dynamic range rivals that of my bi-amp 775's. I pushed a little harder this evening, with impressive results, but I also bumped into its limitations.

While not engaging the protection circuit, the amp does seem to clip quite suddenly and hard when hitting its limits. I mentioned earlier that I had played the amp quite loudly without any detrimental result, ".... waltzed into 100+ WPC territory... " as I put it. But, as it turns out, that was getting near enough to its power capabilities. When the amp clipped, mids suddenly collapsed, bass loss all definition (with woofers bottoming out), and the highs became positively screechy. The interesting bit is that all this seemed to come on quite suddenly, with perfectly acceptable musical performance to just below this point. As measured, the unit was consuming just short of 600-watts, peak, when this occurred, and power to the unit sagged only minimally (119V at full output vs. 121V with everything idling). Whether this sudden clipping was a result of my speakers presenting a particularly demanding load or simply the unit hitting its design limits, I won't comment. I will say that, for an amplifier rated to 170-WPC @ 8-ohms, the output stage seems only just built up to the task (not taking into account its unusual configuration). Again, to contrast, the clipping profile of the 775's is more subtle, where there seems to be a point that the output is no longer increasing, followed by more typical clipping effects (ragged highs, uncontrolled bass, distored mids). In any event, its power is indeed more than adequate for all but the least sensitive speaker or highest possible SPL's.

So, tonally the unit seems a bit on the soft side, dynamically, its as good as most will ever require, and in terms of imaging...

Well, it's different. I've commented before on the effect of what I describe as "spooky good" imaging. What this is is a reproduced soundstage that not only possesses good left to right placement of sound, but the ability for the sound to remain stable across the bandwidth (frequency and power), retain realistic proportions (voices emanating from a single point subjectively only a couple inches across, vs. a mouth somehow stretched 3-feet wide), and depth, the sense that the elements of sound are layered and a sense of actual depth- a plucked jazz guitar that sounds like it's 9-10 feet away, while a voice only sounds 3-5 feet distant. To me, imaging is the most subjective capability of a component. There are components I have owned that possess awesome dynamic capability, unreasonable frequency response, but have fallen short on proper imaging for no readably identifiable reason. I've passed up or passed along these units for other components that, while not being as capable in the previous two disciplines, have possessed the quality of "spooky good" imaging. The B-2X only intermittently has this quality. While I cannot quickly A/B with the h/k's, and must rely on my sonic memory, there are points with the B-2X where, almost randomly, Norah Jones' voice would be 3-feet wide, or the location of a guitar would seemingly wander, slightly, depending on loudness or frequency. The h/k's, with my speakers, preamp, and source components have this sort of thing nailed down flat. I don't know that there is a measurement that would account for this, or what specification in particular would govern it, but whatever it is, the h/ks (and a few other amps I have heard) have it. The B-2X does not.

That is not to say that the amp does not image well. It does, and I doubt that many people, even experienced listeners would notice what I am talking about if I never mentioned it. And certainly, there are units that are much worse (and likely a majority of units cannot perform as well), but it is an instance where others perform this feat better.

Finally, I would like to comment on the dynamic "speed" of this amp. This amp is perhaps the "fastest" sounding amp I've yet had in my system. That is to say that it can go from midling dynamics to thundering crescendos almost instantly, with no sense of the amp having to "ramp up". Indeed, it seems better than my h/k's in this regard, which do seem to need a small fraction of a second to wake up when encountered with complex dynamic passages. Indeed, it almost gives the impression that the B-2X is actually always playing at full output, just lowering its voice for anything less than full output. Even at very quite levels, this results in perceived greater dynamic range (even, perhaps, dynamic decompression) and tremendous energy. Quite good indeed.

While I intend to play with the amp a little more, I think this can serve as my final report on the amp. Considering its vintage and typical price, it should be on the short list of anyone looking for a real big-boy amp, but on a small budget (reportedly, these only fetch $500-700, which seems a bargain to me). I'm very impressed with this amp, despite its forgivable limitations.
 
Hi Mike .
I am expecting my B2x to be delivered by UPS .And i came across your detailed report .I feel now very exited to see what this little amp is capable of .I have several other Yamaha wonders B1s ,B2s and others .So it will be very interesting to see where is this amp capable of .I will try it first with my Dahlquist dq-20 that i am very familiar with. Then i will see what happens with a set of Ohm F's . This is going to be fun.!
 
I am expecting my B2x to be delivered by UPS .And i came across your detailed report .I feel now very exited to see what this little amp is capable of .I have several other Yamaha wonders B1s ,B2s and others .So it will be very interesting to see where is this amp capable of .I will try it first with my Dahlquist dq-20 that i am very familiar with. Then i will see what happens with a set of Ohm F's . This is going to be fun.!
Hi iFarinelli, congratulations on getting a B-2x! You have some of the finest amplifiers Yamaha made. I am particularly fond of my Vint Age restored B-1.
 
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