ADS Opinions Sought...

[jdsalinger]

I have had a pair of NLA with 25th anniversary soft dome tweeter for 5 or 6 years now. Scored a pair of L-520's a couple of years ago. Since I'm not a hoarder, I decided to choose between the two. The Advent won out, but only because of sentimental value, bass and cabinet build quality. They were so close sound-wise and the 520 probably had a more airy and holographic highs. (The Advent is quite detailed, so no slouch). The 420 will fair even worse than the 520 in the bass dept.

I will admit that as I was auditioning the 520 for the buyer....I had one of those sinking feelings that I was making a big mistake. They sounded so fantastic playing some Joao Gilberto.
I DO regret letting them go. I mean....they sell for the cost of a bag of groceries and I'll never get them back.

I would say that if anyone had one or the other....it will be almost a sideways move rather than an upgrade, but you have to decide what's important to you. $150 doesn't buy much these days. I would say a cool pair of speakers like the L-420 is well worth $150. But I'll bet they'd take less.

 

[smoke-libr8r]

206-0122 should be one of the Kodak polymer dome tweeter models

Yes, the 206-0122 has a polymer dome. Does anyone know why ADS chose to go with this instead of the sticky textile dome?

My first guess is that they made the change in response to complaints about the domes collecting dust & pet hair. However, they could have put the sticky coating on the inside, like with the tweeter for the venerable 320i automotive speaker. I think they also made the switch to polymer domes in the automotive speakers (i.e. 320is, etc.) at about the same time. In general, there seemed to be a change in direction for the overall voicing of the ADS line in this time frame. Was the change in voicing philosophy caused by the switch to polymer, or vice versa?

 

[smoke-libr8r]

Curious, do you know what the sticky material they used was?

I've been told, by someone that I trust, that the coating is a water based, butyl latex. I have the actual product name somewhere in my notes archive. I looked into purchasing some a few years ago, but didn't have much luck. IIRC, I could only purchase it in large quantities. The product had an unopened shelf life of 6 months and needed to be completely used immediately after opening (per the manufacturer's instructions).

 

[soundmotor]

Yes, the 206-0122 has a polymer dome. Does anyone know why ADS chose to go with this instead of the sticky textile dome?

My first guess is that they made the change in response to complaints about the domes collecting dust & pet hair. However, they could have put the sticky coating on the inside, like with the tweeter for the venerable 320i automotive speaker. I think they also made the switch to polymer domes in the automotive speakers (i.e. 320is, etc.) at about the same time. In general, there seemed to be a change in direction for the overall voicing of the ADS line in this time frame. Was the change in voicing philosophy caused by the switch to polymer, or vice versa?

Yes, unit to unit consistency as well as being cheaper to build. IIRC dome coating liquid was applied manually with a lab pipette. Although the ~same amount was drawn up each time there was no guarantee that it would be applied exactly the same on every single piece. This was a time consuming labor process. Not so with the plastic film that was formed into domes, they were all of uniform thickness and ~30 domes at a time were made in the same time it took to coat a handful of the other type.

The plastic dome mids and tweeters was developed by Braun, the technology came from them and they preceded the 320is by at least 3 years. Further, the plastic tweeters with plastic front plates measured slightly better than the doped ones. However, the ones with metal plates (206-0126 & 0128) were likely the best ADS ever built. They were much smoother in measured response.

 

[Spiceman50]

Interesting actually. I see it's still done today as I recall, Vanatoo's incorporate a sticky dome tweeter in their speakers.

 

[DAA]

Went back to my Advents. They seem to work better in my room/setup. Took some time to tweak today and man, they sound fantastic.

Love having the ADS 300s and they will see occasional duty when I want a change.

 

[jdsalinger]

I think my Advents sound better than my L-1290's with my new SE84 clone.

 

[Goggle1824]

I think my Advents sound better than my L-1290's with my new SE84 clone.

I think I may speak for many when I say:

" "

 

[MJB1959]

Yes, ADS offered several different models with "400" in the model number. All were 2-ways.

From oldest to newest...

aDs 400 - Wood cabinet, cloth grill. This was a bigger speaker than the later offerings. 206-0100 tweeter, 206-0315 woofer
ADS L400 - Wood cabinet, metal grill. 7.5" wide by 12" tall. There were at lease two different cabinet depths (~6.75" & ~8"), three different grill designs (black, bronze, bowed), and two wood finishes (walnut, oak). 206-0100 or 206-0116 tweeter, 206-0315 woofer
a/d/s/ L400e - Wood cabinet, metal grill. Same size as the L400. 206-0122 tweeter, 206-0387 woofer

The 206-0100 tweeter is a sticky dome that was used in quite a few ADS speakers (400, L400, L420, 500, L520, L620, L520, L620. L630, 700, L710, L810, L910). The 206-0116 was also widely used (L400, C400, L470, L570. L690). One could argue that this tweeter exemplified the "ADS sound" (at least for the 2-way models). The 206-0122 tweeter is not a sticky dome.

I'm pretty sure that all of the woofers were the same size and had rubber surrounds.

The ADS L400 variants that I've owned all sounded very similar. There are very subtle differences due to the cabinet sizes and possibly crossover differences, but it is almost not worth mentioning. The a/d/s/ L400e looks the same, but sounds different. It is more laid back than the ADS L400. I've not heard the aDs 400s, but I would expect that it would be similar to the ADS L400, but with better bass response due to the larger cabinet.

I own both the L400 and the aDs 400 they are indeed 2 different animals, the 400 no "L" is an early model with old school speaker connects (posts with a hex nut)they have dome tweets, and a 4" butyl surrounded woofer, a largish cabinet compared to the later model. And they have super smooth and engaging sound, and could easily be a stand alone speaker in the right setting. As for the L400, they are what I would describe as a polite speaker, both nice looking, and nice sounding. I am using both sets as well as some of the ADS L 520 for the upstairs surround sound setting, sounding quite nice I might add.

Both are nice speakers,and compliment that system nicely. They were all CL finds, and were gotten for very respectable prices.

 

[GD70]

I think my Advents sound better than my L-1290's with my new SE84 clone.

Surprising I must say.
My KLH Fives sound great, but cannot compete with the 910's.

 

[jdsalinger]

Well, I need to clarify that my Advents are essentially 5012's (dome tweeter & crossover). And this opinion was based on one night listening session. But I will say the 5012's sounded detailed like horns.
The L-1290's sounded just OK. I think they need more than 2.5watts to sound good. That's all, I'm not knocking 1290's in any way.

Probably a synergy thing but not too much of a stretch if you think about it. There IS a L-520 vs. L-1290 thread on AK.
And, well, I DID A/B my L-520's with the 5012's and ended up keeping the Advents.

 

[DAA]

I think it all comes down to system and room synergy. I liked the L300/sub combo very much. Nice change. But, after tweaking and setting up the Advents again, I’m not convinced to go back to them any time soon.

 

[scoloheros]

I found an L420 in a thrift store today, just one, that was no good. I stood there for a few minutes, "Hmmmm, I've heard good things about ADS and this one has 'that feel' and look." No price on it, "$5.99". OK I'll do that! It's still in the back of the truck haha, I forgot it was there until I read this thread. I bet a pair sounds really good in a small room, probably as good or better than some modern studio monitors I've listened to. Imo, some of this older stuff sounds better than modern monitors. This L420, it is pretty small, so for your room I would go for the 520 or the next size up from that. My feeling is that you don't need anything more than the 520 for that room but I don't have experience with this speaker. So, I probably shouldn't have said anything haha!

 

[jdurbin1]

No idea on the material, the sticky domes were all before my time and I never had a chance to talk to anyone in engineering about the materials or manufacturing process.

I enjoyed reading that John. Thanks for the education. Curious, do you know what the sticky material they used was? I understand why they used it, just not what it was.

Uniform other than where the little bubbles showed up... we managed to clean that up in the later production runs but the ones they were making drivers out of at the time we acquired ADST were all bubbled somewhere on the dome surface. Not sure if it was the new tooling or better forming process that fixed it, nor whether the bubbles were always there previous to the new tooling. Could be previous ownership migrated from sourcing the domes from Germany to getting them in Taiwan, just a guess if the design originated in Germany. We migrated the parts production of that whole line from Taiwan parts/US assembly to southern China turn-key, put QA on the ground there to audit the lines, and did really stringent IQA on what showed up here and the results show in the product.

... Not so with the plastic film that was formed into domes, they were all of uniform thickness and ~30 domes at a time were made in the same time it took to coat a handful of the other type.

John

 

[soundmotor]

Uniform other than where the little bubbles showed up... we managed to clean that up in the later production runs but the ones they were making drivers out of at the time we acquired ADST were all bubbled somewhere on the dome surface. Not sure if it was the new tooling or better forming process that fixed it, nor whether the bubbles were always there previous to the new tooling. Could be previous ownership migrated from sourcing the domes from Germany to getting them in Taiwan, just a guess if the design originated in Germany. We migrated the parts production of that whole line from Taiwan parts/US assembly to southern China turn-key, put QA on the ground there to audit the lines, and did really stringent IQA on what showed up here and the results show in the product.

John

If they were still heat-forming domes I suspect the bubbles were caused by die wear. Dug out some tweeters from the Wilmington era and see no bubbles on them. The only imperfection is the glue-seal dot. They did not buy preformed domes, just flat sheets of plastic film from BASF. That was heat-formed between the die halves and then the formed sheet placed on a jig and domes circle-cut free. It must be the process was changed in AZ to preformed domes, not how they were made when I worked in MA.

 

[jdurbin1]

Same process other than the material was coming from Kodak at the point we were involved, and the heat-forming was being done overseas. AZ facility still did the final assembly of the drivers and installed them in the cabinets. When we retooled, all of that moved to China and they came in turn-key from that point on.

John

 

[GD70]

I really love reading all this historical insight. Invaluable and fascinating! We're there any pics from those days of any manufacturing processes at the factories?
Glenn

 

[zunde]

Soundmotor and jdurbin, just want to say it sure is nice being a fan of a company that has a couple of knowledgeable former employees still around to give info like this. Very much appreciated as is the help you both have given on my ADS purchases!

 

[zunde]

I think my Advents sound better than my L-1290's with my new SE84 clone.

 

[jdurbin1]

I never made it to the factory that was doing a/d/s/ drivers & assembly. We had other folks handling that, so my China factory experience is limited to the ones that I worked with for earlier car audio projects. I did visit the ADST production facility in AZ a few times, but cruising through like a tourist snapping pics would have gone over badly at that point; that was pre-smartphone also.

John