Advice for new budget amp

[rainsong]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here so go easy on me!

I have recently rediscovered my passion for music and I've been wanting to assemble a decent quality sound setup for my vinyls and cds. At the moment I feel the weakest link is the amplifier. I want to upgrade my very budget amp to something better. As sources I have a decent sherwood vintage turntable and a marantz cd63 CD player. Speakers wise I have purchased recently the whaferdale diamond 10.1. It is for use in the lounge which is on a flat, so not too big - there's quite a lot of window glass in the lounge. Im feeling the sound to be too cold. Really need a warm and detailed amp to contrast with that. Also, I can't put the volume too high or the neighbours will moan so something that holds detail and bass in low to mid volume would be a big plus.

I don't want to spend a lot of money so the amp has to cost under £100. I am considering a vintage player or receiver, something from the 70s maybe? So far, from my research online, there is a consensus that either a pioneer a400 or a nad 3020 would be a good buy. I've also checked the vintage marantz or sansuis. Is there anything cheap and recent that I should consider or look for a good condition vintage deal?

Thanks in advance.

Cheers, Luis

 

[ben_]

Do you want vintage specifically or just because it may be cheaper ?
For under £100 integrated you have multiples options even on semi-recent integrated from 2000 era, just sent you PM as I think ebay links are not allowed apart in the Dollars & sense sub-forum.

ebay UK seems to have half the offerings of the whole western Europe area

 

[sqlsavior]

If your main interest is sound quality, modern chip amps can sound damn good, and are reliable and inexpensive. I have an NAD 3020 that I bought in '82 or so, that is still running, but it's sound quality, famous at the time, is bettered by a $20 Lepai. There's a lot that the 3020 has that the Lepai doesn't, like multiple inputs, a phono stage, and a few more watts, but it is not necessary to spend a lot on amplification these days to get good sound.

 

[rainsong]

Do you want vintage specifically or just because it may be cheaper ?
For under £100 integrated you have multiples options even on semi-recent integrated from 2000 era, just sent you PM as I think ebay links are not allowed apart in the Dollars & sense sub-forum.

ebay UK seems to have half the offerings of the whole western Europe area

Hi!

Thanks for your reply.
Maybe I am wrong but from my research from past week the 70s/80s vintage units were much better and that after that period it is difficult to find anything of good quality at a decent price.
My main concern is budget primarily, hence looking for 2nd hand vintage initially.

My ears are not trained as I am sure most of the members will be but I am sure the amp I am using is under par - it is a budget acoustic solutions (SP101) - I am almost sure can get something better out of the speakers with a better amplifier/receiver
Thanks for the PM, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Luis

 

[rainsong]

If your main interest is sound quality, modern chip amps can sound damn good, and are reliable and inexpensive. I have an NAD 3020 that I bought in '82 or so, that is still running, but it's sound quality, famous at the time, is bettered by a $20 Lepai. There's a lot that the 3020 has that the Lepai doesn't, like multiple inputs, a phono stage, and a few more watts, but it is not necessary to spend a lot on amplification these days to get good sound.

Interesting, I thought you would need to fork out over £500 to have something decent of modern build.
Will definitely look into that Lepai. Ideally I would need an amp with a phono stage and at least one or two more inputs as I have a few sources (turntable, cd player, ps4 and laptop).
I'd be happy with at least a phono and another input for the CD.

Cheers,
Luis

 

[ben_]

Problem with vintage is capacitors and potentiometers getting old and sometimes need works to perform correctly.

You're right most of 80's and 90's gear looks not so nicely built as the big silver faceplates from the 70s. Its a matter of choice, if you're handy with electronics it can be the opportunity to acquire some high end piece on the cheap and can sound really good with a few hours of works on it.

You mentionned values in £, assuming you live in the UK, it is homecountry of NAD, Rotel, Myryad, Arcam, Musical Fidelity and dozens of others makes of great electronics, pretty sure you will find something for less than £500. I have a Myryad z142 on my office "british" system and its darn good and very well built, I got it for €220. I sold a Rotel RA-930AX I had before for €80 and it was already super clean sounding for small speakers, like yours are.

 

[rainsong]

Problem with vintage is capacitors and potentiometers getting old and sometimes need works to perform correctly.

if you're handy with electronics it can be the opportunity to acquire some high end piece on the cheap and can sound really good with a few hours of works on it.

I would much prefer something plug and play! I think I would make it worse instead of making it better if I had to replace/upgrade components!

I sold a Rotel RA-930AX I had before for €80 and it was already super clean sounding for small speakers, like yours are.

I think I am expecting too much and should really just try something decent and take it from there. The problem is the more I read the more confused and obsessed I get with getting the choice right.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Luis

 

[doctor fuse]

I'll add my vote for a NAD 3020 (original incarnation, only!), for it's captivating "euphonic error" that makes it sound like a sweet, phat, old tube amp.
Only caveat is these are nearing their end-of-life, unless you plan to really go over many solder points, recap, etc.

 

[rainsong]

Hi everyone,

After hours and hours of research and keeping a very close eye on the bay, gumtree and all sort of classifieds I ended up buying a pre-owned Denon PMA-510AE in mint condition at a very, very good price. The seller had bought it in 2012-13 new. It certainly still looks like new to me. It has been properly looked after from what I can see.
It has all the features I was looking for: a few inputs including the essential phono with MM for my turntable, a source direct switch to disable the tone controls and a headphone jack, and enough power to drive my wharferdales diamond 10.1. It also allows for bi-wiring to match my speakers. I will be certainly trying that. Oh, and it came with the remote and instruction manual. I think I got a very good deal and as much I would love to buy the Onkyo 9010 or anything at that level I could not justify spending that money at the moment.

The unit itself is very pleasant on the eye - I do prefer black minimal looks with large round controls. This is the case for the volume and source selector. All the controls seem sturdy and of good quality, the tone controls as well as the balance have a middle click position which is quite handy. The source select dial feels very good and clicks in position and a light shows up on that same position.
The front panel looks classy and the controls are nicely spread, giving it a classy but modern look. It actually matches quite well with my marantz cd player.
At the back the inputs are also well laid out, it's hard to mess up the back I guess. The top has a huge hard plastic grill so I am guessing that it heats up quite easily?

It certainly looks good and has all I need but what about the sound?
Well, bearing in mind that I am not an audiophile I must say that the previous amp was certainly rubbish compared with this one. I feel sorry for my hears after all the years listening to that garbage. Ignorance is bliss, right?
The first proof of the quality was that it actually played music from the CD player without distorting it. With the old one it sounded really bad and distorted even at low levels.
But the proof of the pudding is that now I am listening to things on music tracks that I have never heard before. The voice is so clear and detailed now, like it's almost separate from all the instruments and brought to the forefront just like the lead singer is actually in the room singing somewhere, in fact all instruments are clearly defined now.
Before all the sound was flat but now I see myself looking around the room as if the instruments are actually present. It also sounds good no matter where I am in the room. Before the sound would sound differently in different places. I was worried that I would have an issue with the room acoustics but I am happy to know that even though it might no be perfect is actually not an issue anymore.
It seems that bass is not too strong on both the amp and on the speakers but that is not important to me, especially because I live in a flat - in any case, it is good enough and I can always turn on loudness or the bass control should I want it to be more accentuated. Maybe changing the speakers position will aid the bass too. Another thing I immediately noticed is that it gets very loud very quickly when you turn the volume up. Don't know if that is a good thing or not. I could not reach the half way mark or I would get a complaint from the neighbours, by the 10 o'clock position it was already quite loud... I hate living in a flat

Sorry, I do not have all the terminology or the knowledge to give a proper review but it's like night and day and I am over the moon with this amp.
I will focus now on buying a decent set of speakers stand as they are both definitely too close to each other and to the wall. They are on top of the TV stand and above the sitting position listening level. I am hoping that by positioning them better the sound will also improve

I will be coming back here to give another review after a few weeks of use. I am sure I will have a few more things to add by then once I listen to different kind of music and different volumes.
Once I organise the media cupboard and re-position everything I will add some photos so you guys can see the finished setup.

Thanks guys for all your help and if you're still reading this I am sorry for all the random feedback.

P.S. This Hi-Fi thing is addictive. The search for the 'perfect' sound is a never ending quest from what I can see! There's so many things that can be upgraded or bettered. My other half was asking me why I was searching for so long for banana plugs )

Cheers,
Luis

 

[Mister Pig]

Hi everyone,

After hours and hours of research and keeping a very close eye on the bay, gumtree and all sort of classifieds I ended up buying a pre-owned Denon PMA-510AE in mint condition at a very, very good price. The seller had bought it in 2012-13 new. It certainly still looks like new to me. It has been properly looked after from what I can see.
It has all the features I was looking for: a few inputs including the essential phono with MM for my turntable, a source direct switch to disable the tone controls and a headphone jack, and enough power to drive my wharferdales diamond 10.1. It also allows for bi-wiring to match my speakers. I will be certainly trying that. Oh, and it came with the remote and instruction manual. I think I got a very good deal and as much I would love to buy the Onkyo 9010 or anything at that level I could not justify spending that money at the moment.

The unit itself is very pleasant on the eye - I do prefer black minimal looks with large round controls. This is the case for the volume and source selector. All the controls seem sturdy and of good quality, the tone controls as well as the balance have a middle click position which is quite handy. The source select dial feels very good and clicks in position and a light shows up on that same position.
The front panel looks classy and the controls are nicely spread, giving it a classy but modern look. It actually matches quite well with my marantz cd player.
At the back the inputs are also well laid out, it's hard to mess up the back I guess. The top has a huge hard plastic grill so I am guessing that it heats up quite easily?

It certainly looks good and has all I need but what about the sound?
Well, bearing in mind that I am not an audiophile I must say that the previous amp was certainly rubbish compared with this one. I feel sorry for my hears after all the years listening to that garbage. Ignorance is bliss, right?
The first proof of the quality was that it actually played music from the CD player without distorting it. With the old one it sounded really bad and distorted even at low levels.
But the proof of the pudding is that now I am listening to things on music tracks that I have never heard before. The voice is so clear and detailed now, like it's almost separate from all the instruments and brought to the forefront just like the lead singer is actually in the room singing somewhere, in fact all instruments are clearly defined now.
Before all the sound was flat but now I see myself looking around the room as if the instruments are actually present. It also sounds good no matter where I am in the room. Before the sound would sound differently in different places. I was worried that I would have an issue with the room acoustics but I am happy to know that even though it might no be perfect is actually not an issue anymore.
It seems that bass is not too strong on both the amp and on the speakers but that is not important to me, especially because I live in a flat - in any case, it is good enough and I can always turn on loudness or the bass control should I want it to be more accentuated. Maybe changing the speakers position will aid the bass too. Another thing I immediately noticed is that it gets very loud very quickly when you turn the volume up. Don't know if that is a good thing or not. I could not reach the half way mark or I would get a complaint from the neighbours, by the 10 o'clock position it was already quite loud... I hate living in a flat

Sorry, I do not have all the terminology or the knowledge to give a proper review but it's like night and day and I am over the moon with this amp.
I will focus now on buying a decent set of speakers stand as they are both definitely too close to each other and to the wall. They are on top of the TV stand and above the sitting position listening level. I am hoping that by positioning them better the sound will also improve

I will be coming back here to give another review after a few weeks of use. I am sure I will have a few more things to add by then once I listen to different kind of music and different volumes.
Once I organise the media cupboard and re-position everything I will add some photos so you guys can see the finished setup.

Thanks guys for all your help and if you're still reading this I am sorry for all the random feedback.

P.S. This Hi-Fi thing is addictive. The search for the 'perfect' sound is a never ending quest from what I can see! There's so many things that can be upgraded or bettered. My other half was asking me why I was searching for so long for banana plugs )

Cheers,
Luis

Great to read that you found an amplifier that meets and exceeds your expectations! That kind of sound you are describing is why we care about hi fi gear. It is what makes all this effort worthwhile. Congratulations of finding a system that makes listening to music a joy.

Regards
Mister Pig

 

[J English]

Yea! And congrats on having a Marantz 63 cd player. That is one of my favorite decks. I love mine to pieces.

 

[datafone]

Nice result., and I'm glad you didn't go the Pioneer A400 as It's an amp that needs very careful matching with speakers.
I agree with the above, the CD-63 is a nice player.

 

[RT Fan]

"The search for the 'perfect' sound is a never ending quest from what I can see!"

No Luis, the search for the perfect sound is an unaffordable quest! Enjoy your new equipment and welcome to AK, stick around as there are plenty of helpful people here. Especially when it comes to spending your money on gear.