Air Guns

Discussion in 'Sports & Outdoor Adventure' started by Falstaff, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. mfrench

    mfrench Addicted Member

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    It is not intended to be easily removed. But, it is removable. And, there is supposedly an aftermarket regulator already available for it.
     

     

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  2. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita

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    A thought i need to share from my engineering cafe napkin.

    In my mind i keep casually envisioning an electrically powered machine that will interchangeably accept most manner of HPA hand pump.

    Basically, a 1/4 hp electric motor with jackshaft or gear reduction to keep pumping speed reasonable to extend pump longevity. IMO, this is what the guy who designed the "shoebox" should have worked on.

    Somebody wanna draw it up, or better yet build us a prototype?
     
  3. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita

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    Awesome!

    I wish the ATP had enough reservoir volume to sacrifice. The cylinder on that is so small(50cc), i fear that adding a regulator to that one would reduce my already low capacity too much. The Hatsan regulator goes inside the cylinder. So, it eats up a bit of volume/capacity which is a non issue with larger reservoirs.
     
  4. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita

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    Ironically, mods have rendered this exact situation on both my Hatsans. :oops: :dunno:
     
  5. mfrench

    mfrench Addicted Member

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    Since I'm celebrating an apparent controlling of the rodent invasion, at least for now,....
    How about a tour of Mikes Squirrel Popping Rancho - *El Ranchito del Muerto Ratas de Sage?

    * apologies offered to those of native tongue.

    This only took me like 15+ years with my Mac to figure out.
    Whats that, Mike?
    How to overlay an arrow onto an image.

    *Before I go any further, I need to say, that these Google Satellite images show the world as a flat surface. They do not show any contours.
    My house is at the lowest point on the east slope in a tributarial creek drainage valley. I am the red roof with the swimming pool to the right of the Google icon, along the bottom of the image, below.
    Directly across from me, the other redish roof house is on the other side of this same tributary canyon, the western slope side of the canyon. The areas that surround me are sharply rising hills; steep and tall, reaching up 1000' above us to a mountain top. My neighbors house and mine are level to each other, with the bottom of the canyon being fully 20' lower than us, between us. The hillside shown to the left of the image, behind his house, is very steep, and probably 150' higher than the bottom of the canyon.

    Starting at, the Big Picture.
    Big Picture.jpg

    In closer,...
    The patio shots:
    Patio-Shots.jpg

    The patio is where this all started.
    There are four Patio shots, + variations.
    Shot A is around 40'+ backstopped by sharply rising hillside
    Shot B is at 38' backstopped by stack of firewood
    Shot C is at 60' backstopped by stack of firewood. This was along my pool deck, which had a den under it, and, an extremely busy shot!
    Shot D is 90' backstopped by concrete wall diagonal to shot, and, many inches deep of 3/4" gravel pad.
    Shot E is 125' backstopped by thick shrubline, and sharply rising 6' tall 2:1 fill slope

    North corner gallery:
    The shortest of these shots is at a large den hole complex along the face of a thick native shrubline. This was an extremely active area.
    The others are random shots around our lime grove area, and can range to 150'
    My front yard slopes downward from the house, and then rises upward at the grove. Everything out there is backstopped by rising slope out to the edge of the property.

    *OK, back to the suggestion of not showing contours. This is case in point.
    Shot E looks to be directly towards a dwelling, a horse stable. There is a house back in there, to be sure. But, it is built onto a pad that is fully 6' higher than mine to begin with, much deeper into their lot, and that is an area where they graded for a horse stable and corral. Their house is on a pad even higher than that by a few more feet. The house is easily 8' higher than my lot, which is upwardly sloping to begin with. My property edge with them is a 6' tall 2:1 fill slope, and I'm shooting at the ground, and into silt dust (and mud in the rare event of rain). Add to all of that, that neighbor is a gun loving nut, with a complete reloading facility in his garage. He uses this same shot with my pellet trap for zeroing his .22 Winchester nitro-piston air rifle. He is perfectly fine with this arrangement.

    That is where it started, the Patio Gallery, and then the North Corner Gallery, second.
    I cleaned out both of these Galleries with my Crosman 2100 .177
    As I was cleaning out the North Gallery, I kept noticing rodents appearing from just further than my Crosman would reach. And my curiosity as to where they were coming from drew me further out to the edge,... and, then came the Beeman, and, agreements with surrounding neighbors to plink on their land.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  6. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    Thnx! I see why .22LR isn't an option.
    Besides, airguns are like vinyl, it takes application to get good results. I admire your 'remaissance man' resourcefulness.
     

     

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  7. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita

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    Now that's what i call a Neighborhood Watch program! :thumbsup:

    Rodents are like Jay Leno said about Doritos, crunch all you want, they'll make more.
     
  8. mfrench

    mfrench Addicted Member

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    So, the rodents kept emerging from my western edge, and they became out of reach. So, I started following them with the Crosman, just trying different angles. As I got out to the edge of the property, I looked across our road, and, there it was, the Mother Lode.
    The hillside across from me was literally alive with them. Hundreds of them all over the hill.
    This marks the Mother Lode hole. This is a squirrel den that is large enough to be seen from Googles satellite imaging.
    The Mother Lode.jpg

    In these images, t the top of the image, and left, is a large area of trees in grove formation. That is an abandoned Macadamia Nut Farm, and only at portion of it, perhaps half.
    If I were to aim at these holes, I would have to have my gun pointed upwarly at a very steep angle, and outward to 500'++. They are out of my practical reach, but, they feed the system.
    Mother Lode Holes.png

    Another disclaimer before the next picture.
    My driveway is the last house up the road. There is a road block rail past my house, where the local water district laid its claim to the land (its their right), closed the road, because of multiple water main blow outs. They had to create a large anti-water-hammer device just past my house. The main water supply pipe to town crosses my driveway in a giant pipe 20" minimum. Multiple blowouts destroyed the road base above us, and they built their facility to prevent further incident; putting us as the last house on the street. The only traffic that we see is daily mail delivery at 1:30pm sharp; set my watch by it repeatable. We get monday trash service; these images were taken on a monday. Beyond that, random, and infrequent other traffic that is clearly audible in approach. This end of the street is essentially a driveway shared by the three neighbors at the end of it, all right next to each other, essentially.

    This is the beginning of the Beeman Chief era of sniping long shots to secure the perimeter.

    This is my western perimeter, and where the battle has waged for the last several months:
    Western Perimeter Angles.jpg
    All of these Western Perimeter shots are from locations elevated above the road by 8', at my feet, ground level. They are into a creek bottom that is at least 20' deep, plus the added elevation of my lot on the higher hillside; at least 8' higher than the road.

    #1 Green Arrow is measured at 250', and, is such a common shot that I built an outpost there from stacked firewood logs, complete with gun locker (tall trash can with lockable lid).
    The squirrels from this entire Mother Lode hillside area would run downslope, and go into the native shrubline of shot #2 yellow arrows, along the creek bottom. From there, they worked there way towards the top of the image, north. At the edge of the shrubs, they encounter a strip of dirt that my neighbor keeps RoundUp on, and it is raw dirt. The rodents pause there at the shrub end, framed below a drooping branch, and, they staged there. I have made this shot on rodents hundreds of times.

    #2 Yellow arrows - covers a long native shrublike that separates me from most of the Mother Lode. To the left, right next to my neighbors driveway, is a gigantic old Eucalyptus tree that is every bit of 250' tall There is a clearing between that giant Euc, and the native shrublike, that lets me access the hillside. The long shot at #2 is measured at 100 yards.

    #3 Red Arrow - is the longest shot that I've made, measured at 450' It took me four shots walked up the steep hillside to make that kill, but shot four whacked it.
    I recently tried this shot again, and had to walk it up the hill. I came in close, and scared the rodent back into its hole, or so I thought. I figured I'd take another shot at the hole, just to get a ranging for when it reemerged. I took aim at what I thought was a twig at the mound, and fired. It came in extremely close, and exploded dirt just over the twig, into the hillside that made the upper part of the den hole. Turns out that "twig" was the rodents ear, and I missed it by an inch high, and scared it clean out of the hole, and it stomped and huffed and puffed about it.
    #3 is also a clearing created by the local water district, where their giant pipes run up, and over the hillside, to the left of image. That pipe is fed by a reservoir on the hill that rises up behind my backyard.

    These three galleries,... I have these two landowners complete buy-in, and they celebrate my effort. The road,... just consider it my driveway, as it ends right there.
    Shots 1 & 2 are steeply downward shots into the creek bottom, from 20' above it.
    Shot Number 3 is the only upslope shot, and there is still lots of steep hillside left above it.

    There it is, El Ranchito del Muerto Ratas del Sage.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  9. bshorey

    bshorey Super Member

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    Less regulations, around here at least. I needed something I could use outside in my yard, and with one nosy neighbor I didn't want something that would make too much noise, or draw too much attention.

    I bought a Gamo <something> (Whisper, perhaps), to deal with a ground squirrel problem here. Now that I've dialed in the scope, I'm batting maybe .750 on the ones that are relatively close, and maybe .250 on the ones that are further out.

    I thought about solutions like Gopher Gasser, Decon, etc, but we have vultures that take care of the remains for me, and I'd rather not poison them. This little pellet gun does a pretty good job. It would do better if I were a better shot.

    bs
     
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  10. mfrench

    mfrench Addicted Member

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    To address that question quoted above, I do so because of the constant risk of fires here in Cal. That, and they're not as loud.
     
  11. KingBubba

    KingBubba "Too Much Stuff" Subscriber

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    Although a bit more pricey, This field and target is holding my interest:

    https://www.airgundepot.com/benjamin-marauder-field-and-target-wood.html

    Can anyone explain or point me to a written explanation online about what an "onboard regulator" is all about and what benefit, if any, the ability to be able to turn it off would be?

    Reviews of this gun have been very good, for what they are worth. It is heavy which is something I would like. The heavier gun doesn't shake as much as a light gun will. I have a very light bit of a neurological problem called essential tremor. Sometimes my right hand shakes for no apparent reason. It is out of my control. Essential tremor is what Kathryn Hepburn had, that made her voice shake. Hers got worse with age, although most cases do not get worse.

    I have also been searching for info on scopes. The UTG 4-14 is the scope I have kind of set my eyes on. If you have one, mfrench, did the shortness of the scope become an issue with mounting? The thing seems so short that I fear that it won't fit. There were quite a lot of reviews where the UTGs showed up and were given great reviews, especially at their price range. I would love to have a Nikon or some other high grade scope, but cost is a matter to continue. If I end up getting the UTG and I like it, I will get another to mount on my very old Remington single shot .22 cal. rimfire that I have had since I bought it behind my Father's back in 9th grade. The scope on there is cheap but worked well enough to kill a whole lot of squirrels. I used to try and hunt pheasant on the hoof in the wood behind our house. They were a very excellent quarry. They were smart and devious in their tactics. They were a top notch quarry and I never did get one. Jumping them with a dog and shotgun may seem like great sport, but try crawling on your belly through the rhododendrons and and bushes. That way you will find out just how good a prey they are.
     

     

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  12. mfrench

    mfrench Addicted Member

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    You should look for scopes that can handle the shock of air rifles, and have parallax adjustment set for pellet rifle depths. The Springer platform is especially brutal on scopes with a double surge.
    PCP is at the opposite end of the spectrum regarding kick.

    Mounts.
    There are mounts that allow you to cantilever the scope rearward or forward if needed. Search for single piece cantilever mounts for the matching rail base of choice (likely dovetail).

    On my Beeman, I needed a base that had forward canting. It is a very solid base, and, it extends rearward behind the end of the rifle works, into 'free air'. I can put the rear scope mount that much further back, if necessary. I needed it to go as far forward as possible, which put it over the pellet probe of the breach as far forward as I could spare.
    This is that Leapers-UTG canted mount. It is a Dovetail rail to Picatinny rail conversion. On it, I used the supplied UTG Picatinny medium profile scope mounts.
    It was not designed for this rifle, but, the application was exactly what I needed. So, I ended up with a bit of overhang, over the loading tray, and, rear of rifle works. There is also Dovetail rail in front of the breach. But reaching it would pretty much preclude pellet loading.
    UTG 4-16x44 AO Accushot BugBuster
    DSCN5481.jpg

    If you look for Dovetail to Picatinny rail adaptor mounts, you can find lots of creative mounting solutions. Look also for cantilever mounts.

    UTG Leapers products are very budget friendly, and extremely robust! Highest marks.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  13. KingBubba

    KingBubba "Too Much Stuff" Subscriber

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    What is the reason for the need for forward canting?
     
  14. mfrench

    mfrench Addicted Member

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    My barrel aimed downward. That mount is designed for break barrel rifles that develop barrel droop, especially one particular brand.
    A PCP is not a break barrel, and should not ever have droop, but that is what mine seems to have.
    Personally, after lots of time spent with it, and, learning it, I think that the barrel band that joins the barrel and air tube, might not allow the barrel and air tube, and stock, to be perfectly parallel, thusly causing the barrel to "droop".
    At first, I thought it was bent. But, we rolled it on a granite measurement table at Beeman (an hour drive for me), and it rolled true, and passed a laser light straight thru it. It kept aiming low on target, staying 2" low on a 9" target at 60' This led to me maxing out my upward turret adjustment, which caused mayhem in keeping adjustments; the slightest bump sent it reeling into scrambled settings.
    That gent that I described, the one from the blog at PyramydAir, Tom Gaylord, heard me out, and, described exactly what was happening to my scope, and its hard extreme setting, and suggested that I needed to get a scope mount that followed the barrel in a more parallel plane.
    I researched the various mounts, and found that one to be the most robust. I took my find to him, and only then did he reveal that was his design. A very humble gent. That cinched it for me.
    So, I bought this mount, which was obscenely affordable, at something like $15, and tried it. Its a Leapers-UTG product. It allowed me to bring the scope far closer to the opposite range of downward attitude, to far closer to center, and, the scope became extremely stable as a result.

    Before the UTG scope is even slightly faulted,.. The Beeman did this exact thing with another scope, which I returned, mistakenly thinking that it would not hold its zero. The UTG scope was not at fault, even slightly.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  15. GuyK

    GuyK Addicted Member

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    I'm going to hazard a guess regarding an onboard regulator. I would suppose it will function just like a regulator on the output of an air compressor or an acetylene tank. That is, the firing mechanism will only see pressures of whatever the reg. is set to, rather than the full pressure that is in the tank or reservoir. Without, the system will see declining pressure for every shot which will make things difficult at best to shoot consistently. Consider that 2k psi will yield "x" feet per second at the muzzle for the first shot. Second shot would be with 2k less some, yielding "x" less something fps muzzle velocity. Third shot would be more pronounced, 4th shot even more so. With the same mass pellet shooting at the same target range, every shot will have a different trajectory, and trying to figure how much holdover will be difficult at best, especially as the pressure in the tank drops any substantial amount. I can't think of any reason why turning a regulator off or bypassing one would be beneficial in this case.

    The above is only a slightly educated guess as I have no experience with air rifles of this type, even though I have shot off and on my entire life.
     
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  16. GuyK

    GuyK Addicted Member

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    Your suspected cause of this 'barrel droop' that you write about is why so firearms free float the barrel from the stock, especially those with wood stocks.

    Is there any way to do this with your air rifle, or will this open up a whole other can of worms?
     

     

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  17. KingBubba

    KingBubba "Too Much Stuff" Subscriber

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    I was reading a review about a gun that had a floating barrel. The man doing the review expressed his frustration with sighting the scope and getting it tuned in nicely only to have it be way off after he took it out to hunt. It turned out that by simply bumping the barrel, it knocked it out of alignment with the scope. He sent the gun back and kept the scope.
     
  18. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    The "droop" of a breakbarrel spring gun is a lockup alignment variation between the axis of the receiver spring tube housing carrying the scope and the axis of the barrel itself. It varies between individual examples, a special order option for selected minimal offset may be available for such guns intended to be scoped.
    Fixed barrel guns aren't subject to this axial alignment offset.
     
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2018
  19. vonclod

    vonclod Super Member

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  20. bowtie427ss

    bowtie427ss arigato gozaimashita

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    The breech/receiver is not strong enough to support the weight of a rifle length barrel and shroud, a barrel band is necessary. The breech is milled from a hunk of billet aluminum, and when they cut that huge gash across it to accept the plastic Crosman style magazine it only leaves about an 1/8 to 3/16 of material on the bottom to deal with the mechanical advantage and torque of the barrel flopping around.

    For repeatable high accuracy, a 30mm tube and the strongest scope mounts you can buy(and will fit) are requisite as they and the scope tube serve to reinforce the weakness of the breech, it's much like adding frame connectors to a uni-body car for the hot rodder crowd. This is not exactly an ideal situation. But, MANY airguns have this achilles heel, it's not limited to Hatsans by any means. Nobody likes to talk about it or warn you ahead of time.
     

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