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Akai X-360D

Discussion in 'Tape' started by SansuiQR6500, Sep 29, 2010.

  1. SansuiQR6500

    SansuiQR6500 New Member

    Messages:
    14
    I just bought this machine. It's in great shape for being forty years old and seemed to work fine until the machine started to slow down while in play. When I engage 7 1/2 IPS I can hear a fan that starts to run. It's only when that fan seems to be running slow that the reel to reel will not play my tapes at the right speed. It only seems to do this at 7 1/2. I don't have any tapes recorded at 3 3/4 so I can't tell if it plays slow at that speed as well.

    Any ideas? This looks like a very complicated deck to take apart.
     

     

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  2. aero_eng

    aero_eng New Member

    Messages:
    39
    The fan is attached to the capstan motor, it revolves at the same speed as the motor (which is why you only hear it at the highest speed... but it turns with the motor when the set is on). There are two possibilities: (1) the belt that couples the capstan motor to the capstan flywheel has stretched, causing it to slow down; (2) the motor run capacitor is shot, which causes both the motor to slow down under load AND the motor to heat up as well. Since you say the fan sounds slow, I would guess you are looking at number (2).
    I don't have the specs with me at the moment (I think its around 2 to 3 microfarads at 250 V) but it should not be a big issue to replace the old capacitor with something more modern.
    Hope this helps!
     
  3. RODALCO

    RODALCO Active Member

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    Akai X-360

    Hi, the X-360D is a great machine, auto reverse and even 15 IPS speed when the capstan sleeve is fitted.
    It is also very complicated with a lot of relays.
    You will be able to fix it and have a great piece of audio history with professional audio quailty.

    Check the motor run capacitor as suggested by aero_eng.
    These can go faulty after 40 years, and cause motor speed fluctuations and extra heating in the motor windings.

    I have a X-360 with built in amp which I bought 5 weeks ago ( video of it running is on YouTube )

    http://www.youtube.com/user/RODALCO2007?feature=mhum#p/u/8/LSCM--OqcGw
     
  4. SansuiQR6500

    SansuiQR6500 New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Hi guys,

    Thank you for the suggestions! After having the deck playing a tape after a while it shut down suddenly. I thought there was an auto stop or something like that but then I found that the fuse was blown. Me being the stupid person I am put another fuse in that was the wrong rating. I turn the power on and then POW! I have the result as an attached picture. Is that one of the motor run capacitors that blew up? It's rated at 0.47 M @ 250 V.

    Thanks for the help!
     

    Attached Files:

  5. SansuiQR6500

    SansuiQR6500 New Member

    Messages:
    14
    I also forgot to mention that I was having trouble with recording. When I moved the Line level knobs the volume would not go up when on source. There's a button that has something to do with Comput-O-Matic near the level adjustments. Would this have something to do with that problem? I actually have no idea how to use that feature. It didn't seem to work (probably because I didn't know how to use it).
     
  6. vfr800fiman

    vfr800fiman AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Gotta love those wire wound adjustable power resistors in these decks :D
    I've got an X-355, and I have a similar problem. The motor heats up very quickly. Tough to find motor run caps for this deck. The value is odd and they are those oval shorty type of package. I just quit using mine until I can find replacements.

    BTW, I replaced every electrolytic cap in my deck, those things tend to fail after 40 years. I also rebuilt the power supply with fresh caps and eliminated the selenium rectifier.

    Glenn
     

     

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  7. RODALCO

    RODALCO Active Member

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    I don't think that is a motor run cap as they are usually silver coloured.
    You should be able to get a replacement for the 0.47 uF Cap.
    Somehow in the older days they used the suffix M instead of u for micro Farad index.
     
  8. aero_eng

    aero_eng New Member

    Messages:
    39
    No, the capstan motor run cap is the big silver can with the plastic cover directly to the right (first picture) of the capstan motor, the one with the green, blue, and pink wires to it.
    The electrolytic that blew is one of two on the relay board. On the 360/365 series, the relays are fed 120+VDC or so from the AC line via a diode bridge and the electrolytics are there to filter the ripple after AC-DC conversion. This is why it is very difficult to find replacement relays for these machines: the coil has to be rated to work at 135 VDC (if I remember correctly).
    Typically on these machines the fuse blows when you lift the auto-stop lever as you thread the tape. This is a symptom that the one or both caps on the board are shorting out. Replacing the fuse without changing the caps will lead to the above episode. This is because the auto-stop interrupts the entire voltage supply to ALL the relays, thus dropping whatever mode the machine is in and placing it back in STOP mode.
    Now that you know, you should replace both caps on the board at the same time. Good Luck!
     
  9. RODALCO

    RODALCO Active Member

    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Auckland, New Zealand
    120 Volts relays

    I didn't know that the relays had a coil voltage of 120 Volts or thereabouts.

    Great that we use 120 Volts DC relays in our electricity substations which are normally 2 or 3 pole octal or 11 pin with change over contacts.

    Got already a few salvaged from old substation panels.
     
  10. JHS2RT

    JHS2RT and Miss Sasha Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,282
    Location:
    Vero Beach,Florida
    My GX-260 does the exact same thing . I have also been told it in bad caps on the "speed board".
    I have yet to tear into it.So I'll be watching this thread.
     
  11. aero_eng

    aero_eng New Member

    Messages:
    39
    These are 120-135 VDC 4-pole relays, non-octal base. That is what makes these relays somewhat difficult to find these days.
    Regarding the system control PCB, in addition to the blown electrolytic caps that we see here, the other failure mode for these models are the spark quenchers (the blue or orange plastic squares right next to each relay) and the freewheel diodes. When they go bad, the high-voltage spikes that are induced when the relay coil opens cause arcing across contacts. In time, erratic behavior of the different modes (play, ff, rew, etc) starts to become apparent.
    Regarding the speed instability: on the models without a servo-controlled motor (i.e. hysteresis synchronous motor), there is a youtube video of how someone went about recapping a GX-260.
     

     

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  12. SansuiQR6500

    SansuiQR6500 New Member

    Messages:
    14
    Well, I finally got the parts that I needed!

    Now I've got to figure out how to get the relay board out. Could anyone with experience with these machines maybe give me a run through of how to get the relay board out? It looks easier said than done.
     
  13. larryderouin

    larryderouin Turn it UP, POP? PLLUUEEEZZZZZEE Subscriber

    Messages:
    21,837
    Location:
    Glen Burnie Md.
    When I redid the Motor Caps on my GX-365D I ended up using series 935 caps from Cornell Dublier. They ain't cheap, but they work really well. 2 years later they are keeping the old girl running. DATA SHEET BELOW. Use the part # @ mouser.

    http://www.cde.com/catalogs/935.pdf

    Larry
     
  14. Barry8Track

    Barry8Track New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Just got one myself

    As a professional, I wouldn't even TRY to take this thing apart without first getting the service manaul for it. But as a rule, anything this old definitely needs a full recap job. I got lucky and mine seems to work great, though I'm not sure how to use some of the features.

    I was VERY happy to see that it will run at 15 ips with the extra capstan and roller. I'll get the owner and service manuals and restore this baby to good health. Interesting meters - completely black with a line for 0 VU and that's it. Never seen that before!

    I haven't been inside many reel to reels, maybe 10 or so. My last Akai reel to reel (a 4 track model) took me like 25 hours to get everything working properly. As I remember, some of the slide switches were falling apart.

    Since very few tapes run at 1 7/8 ips, I just leave the bigger capstan on and select half the speed I want. The bigger capstan places less wear on the tape, as the temporary indentations it makes in the tape are larger, resulting in less "bending" of the tape material.
     
  15. fly4food

    fly4food New Member

    Messages:
    2
    I have a related issue with my 360D. I replaced the Capstan run Caps with two motor run caps from Allied Electronics Part # 4.16.15.69.64 for the 1mf. # 4.16.15.01.64 for the 2mf. the motor speed is now constant and does not heat up. However, All reels must be played with the 15 ips rollers. 71/2 ips is is with the 33/4 switch selected and 33/4 is played with the 17/8 switch selected. Without the optional rollers installed all speeds are slower than the selected switches. Since all my tapes are either 71/2 or 33/4, all is well. Nevertheless, if anyone has a suggestion as to how I might fix this I would love to hear from him/her. Thanks
     
  16. SweetVintage

    SweetVintage Member

    Messages:
    81
    Same problem here. Just trying to figure out how this thing operates. I suspect the run cap has issues, However, the thing has 5 terminals and is rated at 1uf and 2 uf. 3 of the lugs are marked with either a yellow dot, white dot and a red dot, other 2 are unmarked. Be really just Terrific if I knew what terms were 2uf and 1 uf. Not anything I can find in the sm either.

    Currently mine does the same thing, Large sleeve\smaller roller, switch set to 3 3/4, a 7 1/2 ips plays properly. Sleeve removed, larger roller on, 7 1/2 ips selected, Tape plays SLOW?!??! Makes me think that there should be a 2nd Smaller sleeve that goes on this deck and that the Capstan wasn't meant to be run "Bare", in other words 2 sleeves and 2 rollers. I WISH I knew at this point.

    I'm pretty baffled at this point, again, I suspect the Run cap but I can't figure out which leads go to 1uf and 2uf. What is also baffling me is that is is a 3 speed motor (Windings) so that would mean I would need another cap for that or does it simply put the existing cap sets in series\parallel to get the correct ratings.

    (Head in Hands)

    One reason these Older machines are such a bitch sometimes. Damn Run caps, crappy literature.

    "Smiley Icon shooting itself"

    :D
     
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2013

     

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  17. SweetVintage

    SweetVintage Member

    Messages:
    81
    AKAI X-360 Speed Issue FIXED.

    OK, I fixed my X-360. I WAS Having to use the 15ips cap sleeve to play a tape at the correct speed. The problem is the Spark Quenchers. There are about 20 total in the unit but the ones causing the problems were the ones near the 3 tape speed selectors, Not the ones on the relay control board. Had to dig pretty deep, removing one chassis panel and pull the micro switch panel assembly out to get to them. There are 8 of them. Orange in color and if you have this tape speed issue (Who Doesn't) you will see that at least one or two of those quenchers has a big Blister on one side. I had 2 that were swollen and another that was just flat out cracked.

    .1uf plus 120 Ohm all in one unit. I had to order from China but got them in a few weeks and the new ones work Great. Machine plays as it should in all speeds. Still using original Run Caps.
    Hope this helps someone out there.
    Tim
    :music:
     
  18. tbryant76

    tbryant76 New Member

    Messages:
    13
    Sorry to bring up an old post but Im having issues with my 360d, except there is no sound output, headphone or line out. No activity on the meters. I see my spark quenchers blistered. 2 of them. Could this cause that issue as well?
     
  19. van dinh

    van dinh New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Hi Larry,
    I got my Akai x-365d had same problem, need to replace Motor cap, i saw yr post and part list. Please show me how to order ( i mean order 2 pcs with different farah /) and how to wire it up.
    Thnks very much for yr help.

     
  20. Derfie

    Derfie New Member

    Messages:
    4
    Just general info: Bought my x-360 in Japan at the Yakota AFB BX in 1969. The two terminals on the top of motor cap with blu/blk and grn/blk wires are dummy terms to connect the motor wires with the harness wires leading to the relay board. The common is red dot, sky colored wire, the white dot white wire (1 mfd) and the yellow dot yel/blk wire (2 mfd). The 1 mfd is only used and paralleled with the the 2 mfd if power is 50Hz, via 50/60 switch in top front of deck, so if you're not going to use on 50Hz power, you don't need it. Any orange spark suppressors with bubbles are blown and will cause motor to run slow or not at all. Those for motor speed switching are behind the main deck plate and just above the amplifier box, which must be removed to access them. Those on the relay board will bypass the relay beside them and probably result in damaging the DC control voltage supply, nominally 100 VDC. They are rated .1(mfd) + 120 ohm at 250v, in series internally. It looks from this rating that the 250v is a DC rating, normally meaning much less for an AC rating. A bad motor run cap will cause a couple of these suppressors to blow as well, if not diagnosed quickly. My machine came with full schematics as well as manual. I ordered the parts list online and it includes printed circuit layouts from both sides, as well as all mechanical items. Motor run cap 2mf + 1mf 250 WV is listed for $0.62 (heh!)
     
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