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Aligning Cartage with Overhang gauge, Getting High end distortion

Discussion in 'Turntables' started by xxtensazenxx, Jan 31, 2018.

  1. xxtensazenxx

    xxtensazenxx New Member

    Messages:
    8
    First off:
    Turntable: Technics SL-23
    Cartage: Pickering XSV 3000

    I started vinyl a few years ago with a humble Audio Technica LP-60, which is quickly outgrew. So I upgraded to what I have now, A Technics SL-23. I had to get it repaired so I never bothered with Aligning or tracking force, I just left it how the AV shop guy did... But I wanted to learn, so I went to re-setting the table. So Suffice it to say I'm a bit of a newbie so please bear with me.

    Tracking force was easy, but I'm stuck on Aligning it... I tried the Stevenson protractor, but I was struggling... so I bought an original Technics 52mm Overhang gauge (which after research on the forum I found I was good to use it). I got my needle lined up pretty good I think?
    [​IMG]


    But im now getting A LOT of distortion on the higher end, and S's....

    I never had this issue before....

    I then realized the cartage is not really centered (if that makes a difference) and no matter how hard I tried it just would not. The... clamps? "plastic bits", whatever they're called, that mount the cartage to the shell keep moving and going crooked when I tighten the screws. Is this normal?[​IMG]


    So at this point I really dont know what to do...What do you guys think my best course of action is?
    Also any suggestions for a new turntable? lol


    Thanks so much in advanced
     

     

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  2. vinowino

    vinowino Super Member

    Messages:
    1,077
    Location:
    Cambridge. New Zealand.
    I have been through all that.
    In the end (after much research and hours reading various forums) I bought a Mo Fi Geo Disc.
    Should have done that years ago.
    I am not going to go through the details but look it up and see what you think.
     
  3. kaplang

    kaplang Works for me ! Subscriber

    Should be centered and how is the azimuth?

    :
     
  4. xxtensazenxx

    xxtensazenxx New Member

    Messages:
    8
    azimuth? Like neither channel is more or less predominant,they sound pretty equal to me. and any idea how I would center it?
     
  5. JP

    JP 7480 74111110101115

    Messages:
    2,414
    Location:
    NYC and Brookfield, CT
    Had to tell, but it looks like the stylus tip is proud from the gauge in the first pic. Easiest to use a razor blade align the stylus tip with the end of the gauge: https://www.kabusa.com/GIF/overhang.jpg
     
  6. trinhsman

    trinhsman AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,128
    Location:
    On a lake in Georgia
    I have the MoFi Geodisc. Just installed a SoundSmith Aida cartridge. First install I ever did. Scared the Hell out of me, but it worked. I have since tried other protractors to tweak things, and can't better the Geodisc. Pretty simple thing, but it works.
     

     

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  7. Chrisxo55441

    Chrisxo55441 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,439
    Location:
    Twin Cities Minnesota
    the technics overhang gauge and Stevenson protractor are very close if not the same. on my technics tables i set the overhang with the technics gauge then fine tune it on the Stevenson protractor to get it lined up right, usually very little adjustment is needed.
     
  8. revox-b77

    revox-b77 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,878
    Location:
    Fingerlakes, NY
    You need to set it up so that the tip of the diamond is at the tip of the jig. Your picture it looks like you are a mm or 2 long. Also, the cartridge needs to be parallel to the sides of the headshell. You are going to have to eyeball that one. I usually install 1 screw, get everything lined up and tighten that screw some. Then I add the final screw, re-check everything and tighten both screws.

    Hope that helps a bit.
     
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  9. SA-708

    SA-708 Appalachian-American

    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    I had a Grado Black that i couldn't get centered in a slotted headshell, using the Technics gauge on an SL-1700Mk2. The way that the top face of the cartridge around the screw holes interacted with the slots, when I tried to tighten the screws the cartridge would shift over to the right or left. The only solution that worked for me was to mount the cartridge on a different headshell.
     
  10. steven94

    steven94 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    452
    Location:
    Long Island N.Y.
    i agree your set up is a little long the diamond tip should be even with the end of the gauge. My thought is are you sure that is a genuine D3000 stylus? A real one will say D3000 on the top and have small raised PC in a circle on the front or side and they are usually black I have never seen a white one but thats not to say they never made it in white. My other question is the cantilever diameter seems alot bigger than one on a 3000. I'm wondering if it's not a aftermarket stylus. Some are good, most I belive are not .You didn't say what tracking force you were using, for the 3000 it's about 1 to 1 1/4 gms if it's aftermarket it could be anything over 2gms. You will have to experiment to find the right VTF. I have a XSV 3000 and VTF is about 1 1/8 gms on a technics sl 1700 mk2 it's great cart.Good Luck
     
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  11. JFRACE

    JFRACE AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New Jersey
    That's not the original and is a pfanstiehl, it needs to be tracked at about 1.75 to 2 grams until broken in then back off the weight
     

     

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  12. JFRACE

    JFRACE AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    840
    Location:
    New Jersey
    The turntable is not the issue either, it's the installation. Do each screw a little bit, move to the other side, and go back and forth. Once square in the sled and done with the protractor see the above comment in weight the table is a very good one from technics for their belt driives.
     
  13. SA-708

    SA-708 Appalachian-American

    Messages:
    5,750
    Location:
    NE Tennessee
    You could also try leaving of the little mounting blocks and attaching the ears directly to the headshell, but that might result in a ground loop.
     
  14. Poinzy

    Poinzy Super Member

    Messages:
    1,899
    Location:
    SE Michigan
    The mounting blocks also serve as spacers, so you don't want to leave them off.
     
  15. cgutz

    cgutz AK Member

    Messages:
    3,391
    Location:
    SE South Dakota
    Some years ago, I got a Pickering XV15 on a turntable. Since I had heard good things about the cartridge, I bought a pfansteihl to try it out. Never could eliminate sibilance, even with fiddling with alignment and tracking. Granted, I only used it for a few days. Perhaps it needs a break-in? Went back to my Ortofon. I may have had better success with a genuine pickering stylus, but wasn't interested in parting with the coin, as my Ortofon is very satisfying.

    The moral: It may be that your aftermarket stylus is not up to snuff, or as stated above, needs break-in even with proper alignment/tracking.

    I have had success with other aftermarket, inexpensive stylus on other cartridges (like the EVG on my Shure). I also read online that pfansteihl performance varies by model, etc.
     
  16. WaynerN

    WaynerN AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,927
    Location:
    Minnesota
    The Technics overhang gauge will align your table into a Stevenson (DIN, or JIN)
     
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  17. kaplang

    kaplang Works for me ! Subscriber

    It both
    If both channels sound equal its probably close enough. It can be centered using an O scope or something called a Fazo meter and maybe other ways that I don't know about. You can also eyeball it from the front and get it very close if the head shell has a way to adjust it.

    Hope this helps
     
  18. xxtensazenxx

    xxtensazenxx New Member

    Messages:
    8
    Thanks everyone for the support, and I tried most of the suggestions but it just wont work, and I was trying to find a way to put it into words but This hit the nail on the head
    That is my exact issue. No matter what I try it just shimmys out of the perfect position I have.... been working on it for hours...
    Do you know what would be a good headshell to get? Or will I have the same issue in another one because the mount is the actual cartage?
     
  19. xxtensazenxx

    xxtensazenxx New Member

    Messages:
    8
    It is not :O i did not know that would make a difference! I have the Pfanstiehl 4608-DEX. Also I was using a tracking force of 1-1.5 grams,
     
  20. steven94

    steven94 AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    452
    Location:
    Long Island N.Y.
    xxten It makes a big difference what stylus is on it. Nothing is going to sound as good as the original.The 4608 dex I am not familiar with but is on the lower end.It might never sound good, always sibilant. You can try increasing the VTF in 1/4 gm increments until it sounds the best. This will probably end up in the 2 to 3 gm area or higher. Not knowing your budget it's hard to recommend something. At LPGear their vivid line are getting pretty good reviews. You could also do a search here or start a new thread asking the best after market stylus for the 3000 that way you would get people who have tried different ones and have more knowledge. Good luck Almost forgot you must get it properly mounted first
     

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