Alignment protractors - can they be cartridge specific?

62vauxhall

Super Member
This afternoon i received back a turntable with a brand new M97xe cartridge that I gifted a few years ago. It went to someone who passed away last summer and his widow has no interest in his stereo so I wound up with a few pieces. Turned out the deceased recipient had little interest either as records were almost never played - or so his widow says.

Also back in my possession is the M97xe cartridge box I included with the turntable and in it is the enclosed Shure alignment protractor.

Since it is a stylus tip one is attempting to align, is there any reason why this particular protractor cannot be used for cartridges in general?
 
None whatsoever. I had that gauge and recently sold the cartridge it came with, but I had photocopied and laminated the template.

It's not the gauge everyone uses but does work fine.
 
Not sure which protractor it is, but be aware that the three main alignments produce different looking results in fixed arms. You can use any other them but, for example, using a Baerwald protractor on a Technics table (which is set up for Stevenson) usually results in a cartridge that is pulled forward and cocked inward to a very noticeable degree. It works fine and sounds good, but looks odd.
 
True, what Monty and Nat said. The Shure template is common Baerwald. Also be aware that there aren't just three alignments. There are three common alignments, but an infinite number of other ways to align. So if you use the method any turntable maker suggests, it may or may not match with one of the protractors.
 
Common would have been clearer than main in my comment. The reason there are more common and less common ones does have an actual relationship to merit. There are an infinite number of wrong ways to do things, and usually a much smaller number of right ways. The three common alternatives have slightly differing objectives - where to place the greatest error, and the least, seems to be a source of moderate disagreement, but these are three that have been worked out mathematically and that most of the people who care to actually analyze the sound have thought were acceptably good in almost all circumstances, and so have a significant infrastructure (if you can call it that) - protractors easily available and arms designed around them. There are others that might work equally well, but will require more work on the user's part, and may not achieve as good results outside of a particular context.
 
I have messed with those alignment gauges and have had no luck . The only way to set the cartridge up right is to set it up like the manufacturer says to. I have a M97XE on one table and could not get it to sound good until I set it up to the turntable manufacturers specs. The most critical is to get the overhang right and the body aligned right. I made my own tool to set the overhang and now it sounds great with no IGD.
 
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I have messed with those alignment gauges and have had no luck . The only way to set the cartridge up right is to set it up like the manufacturer says to. I have a M97XE on one table and could not get it to sound good until I set it up to the turntable manufacturers specs. The most critical is to get the overhang right and the body aligned right. I made my own tool to set the overhang and now it sounds great with no IGD.

@jim249 - can you post some pics of that tool?

Guess it all depends on what you are after. I have tried a number of differing alignment methods and tools depending on the table arm and cartridge. I do use Conrad Hoffman's tool for most things since it allows for the precise math but you need to have all of the needed information to use it properly. When I find a combination that works well I print and laminate for that use. Very flexible.
 
You can get a protractor that is arm specific. When you order a MintLP ( https://mintlp.com/best.htm ) protractor you specify your turntable's arm. I have used one for years. It's not cheap but it costs less then some of the other popular aftermarket protractors you can buy.
 
I aligned my new Odyssey arm with a MFSL Geo-Disc. You have to aim a 'pointer' at the pivot-point. The Odyssey is easy, the pivot is clearly visible, a pillar all on its own. Here's a pic —

IMG_0846 copy.jpg

The pillar on the left is obviously the arm-lift, not the pivot. I aligned to the pillar on the right. It was GLORIOUS!!! Lightyears better than all my other arms (SME 309, Ittok, Syrinx: supposed to be pretty good). But the Odyssey was sheer MAGIC!! I was hearing each cartridge and each record for the first time, a new Universe of Music! Soundstage to Infinity! Music of the Spheres! Celestial Harmonies!

But then I realized I made a HUGE mistake. That pillar is for vertical movement, up/down. The middle pillar is for lateral motion, and that's the correct pivot to align to. I was off by over half an inch, a GROSS error!

I re-aligned correctly, it would be even greater! I lowered the arm with great excitement and — the Magic was gone! It was 'just' a damn good arm, better than the others but not a new Universe.

I went back to the gross error. It's Glorious again! And the styli are 'hyper-critical' line-contact/micro-ridge/VDH etc, not a 'forgiving' conical — > half-an-inch off can't possibly sound good!

Beats me...
 
Nice story bimasta. I think it’s worth noting, repeating etc.. There is no cookie cutter alignment. Some work better than others in certain circumstances depending on many variables. Then there is the personal sound experience of the user to consider. Use your ears to guide you with alignment. Use the tools to lead you in the right direction.
 
Thanks MRL! Some people might write me off as a basket case.

But it troubles me. It's SO wrong. If I embrace it, I'm throwing out all the Science, the entire Canon of Dogma!

I shudder to think what I may do next. Ordinary wire?
 
You can get a protractor that is arm specific. When you order a MintLP ( https://mintlp.com/best.htm ) protractor you specify your turntable's arm. I have used one for years. It's not cheap but it costs less then some of the other popular aftermarket protractors you can buy.
VPI and Project ship protractors with their turntables. The VPI system is very well designed and they even include a digital stylus force gauge with the system.
 
I aligned my new Odyssey arm with a MFSL Geo-Disc. You have to aim a 'pointer' at the pivot-point. The Odyssey is easy, the pivot is clearly visible, a pillar all on its own. Here's a pic —

View attachment 1419817

The pillar on the left is obviously the arm-lift, not the pivot. I aligned to the pillar on the right. It was GLORIOUS!!! Lightyears better than all my other arms (SME 309, Ittok, Syrinx: supposed to be pretty good). But the Odyssey was sheer MAGIC!! I was hearing each cartridge and each record for the first time, a new Universe of Music! Soundstage to Infinity! Music of the Spheres! Celestial Harmonies!

But then I realized I made a HUGE mistake. That pillar is for vertical movement, up/down. The middle pillar is for lateral motion, and that's the correct pivot to align to. I was off by over half an inch, a GROSS error!

I re-aligned correctly, it would be even greater! I lowered the arm with great excitement and — the Magic was gone! It was 'just' a damn good arm, better than the others but not a new Universe.

I went back to the gross error. It's Glorious again! And the styli are 'hyper-critical' line-contact/micro-ridge/VDH etc, not a 'forgiving' conical — > half-an-inch off can't possibly sound good!

Beats me...
That happened to me once. Long story short, overhang was correct but arm distance was short by roughly 10mm. Still sounded remarkably good....no obvious distortion nasties. But resetting the distance and overhang brought the angular distortion down....a little more would've sounded like an LT arm.

Nothing glorious in my case, but I suspect what you're enjoying is the higher angular error.

Nice arm, BTW.
 
I have messed with those alignment gauges and have had no luck . The only way to set the cartridge up right is to set it up like the manufacturer says to. I have a M97XE on one table and could not get it to sound good until I set it up to the turntable manufacturers specs. The most critical is to get the overhang right and the body aligned right. I made my own tool to set the overhang and now it sounds great with no IGD.
+1. My experience, too. Having said that, others have been happy doing the opposite.
 
@jim249 - can you post some pics of that tool?

Guess it all depends on what you are after. I have tried a number of differing alignment methods and tools depending on the table arm and cartridge. I do use Conrad Hoffman's tool for most things since it allows for the precise math but you need to have all of the needed information to use it properly. When I find a combination that works well I print and laminate for that use. Very flexible.
You will have to wait 7 to 10 days until I get a charger to charge my camera battery. I left it in Idaho this year. Had to order another one.
 
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