Altec Model 15 project

Discussion in 'The Lansing Legacy' started by Katalyst, Jun 2, 2018.

  1. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Hi Katalyst,

    I looked at the "Optimal M15" file that you uploaded.

    I'm quite sure it was corrupted ( or else the file that I uploaded was corrupted somewhere along the way ) .
    - I say this because the un-filtered response was very skewed//distorted.

    Anyways; here's what the raw Horn/Driver looks like ( before & ) after M15 filtering is applied ( at the noted optimal settings ) .

    [​IMG]

    I've uploaded the raw .frd file ( renamed as .txt file >> so just remove that additional extension before using it in XSim )

    I looked at the .zma file ( enclosed within the XSim file ) and it wasn't corrupted, so I haven't attached it .

    :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 23, 2018

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  2. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
  3. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Those files in post 892 ( over at T.T. ) are .frd & .zma files ( with .txt appended to the ends just so that Zilch could upload them to that forum ).

    You can't directly convert them into a .dxo ( XSim file ).

    You instead open Xsim > drag a speaker icon onto the filter editor screen > right click on that speaker icon > import the .frd + .zma files of your chosing > name the speaker icon > close that window and start dragging passives into the editor window to build your sim.

    I think your 412 will be closer in response to the 414Z ( apart from the impedance differences ).

    The 414Z, as seen here has more of a rising mid-band response .

    Here are some web captures showing these two woofers.

    [​IMG][​IMG]


    While the extremely flattering vertical scale ( seen above ) helps mask the differences, here's those very same traces ( exported + then ) opened up in REW, displayed in a higher resolution vertical scale.

    [​IMG]

    :)

    PS; I'll be posting the frd's of these ( web-capture ) 414's for you to play with ( sometime this weekend ).
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    Katalyst likes this.
  4. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    EarlK thank you for guiding me in this adventure. I am now running the Model 15 crossover on the 802 drivers outside the box. Bi-amp terminals installed. The PS200 crown amplifier is now running the woofers. This way I could attenuate them. I could finally here the 802s on the 32 horns. They do cross at 1700 hz as the manual says. I used the wire keepers as " Feet ". Stands will be made later.
     

    Attached Files:

  5. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    The Yamaha CR600 has made the bi-amping easy. No extra jumpers needed. The receiver is powering the horn section. The ps200 the woofers. Using the speaker switch you can drop the horns out. Turn the ps200 off and horns only. This is the first time I have bi-amped. Graph attached of room response at sweet seat with actual music playing. Music selected was The Pentangle .
     

    Attached Files:

    EarlK likes this.
  6. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Great Stuff!

    How's it sounding?

    :)
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  7. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Now that the horns are audible sound has opened up. The Model 15 crossovers will be broke down for reworking. The two do not adjust the same and pots have dead spots . I will make a simple first order crossover for temporary service while the real crossover is built.
    The networks you offered would be most welcome. Do they have the woofer portion as well as the horn section? I had the speakers on milk crates as stands.Now they are lower and the 32 horns project up from what I have read. The "beaming" of the woofers is out of range now. My wife has been very understanding. Saturday afternoon spent working on the project and all smiles.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    EarlK likes this.
  8. EarlK

    EarlK Active Member

    Messages:
    444
    Location:
    Richmond Hill, Ont.
    Hi,

    Here's a zipped XSim file with a lots of goodies inside it .

    HiPass Swapping in XSim :

    I built the M15 HiPass section and added it to this file ( which started life as a 32343 network schematic ) so that a user can compare the overall differences ( if any ) between the M15 and 32343 HiPasses ( when married to the 32343 LowPass ).

    I found the differences are minimal ( and don't really warrant building the 32343 HiPass if one is already in possession of the M15 HiPass ).

    You can see these differences for yourself by toggling in ( or out ) either HiPass.
    - Use the "Hold" function/button to compare the differences.

    To effect a toggle/swap, right click on the first capacitor found in the each HP section > then choose "Tune" from the menu that appears > then in the next window, choose either "Normal" to engage the component or "Open" to remove the component ( & everything following it ) from the circuit simulation .

    414 Woofer Swapping in XSim :

    I've included all the file variations that I've made for 414 woofers, ( though I tend to create more when I run across some new info ).

    Antways, just drag any woofer into place to see the response changes one gets from simple substitutions ( remember to use together (2) 414z woofers since they're 16 ohm woofers being subbed into a circuit meant for a single 8 ohm woofer ).

    The challenge here is that these files are constructed from other peoples data > so I can't speak to any inaccuracies ( though I'm very confident in Zilch's data ) .

    Good Luck!

    :)
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
    Zonker92 and Katalyst like this.
  9. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Once again. Thank you. I will play with all the goodies you sent and come up with a plan. Good Karma to you.
     
    EarlK likes this.
  10. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Thanks to EarlK the path forward is set. Parts have been ordered for the crossovers. The crossovers have been stripped in preparation for renewal. All L-pads were bad. I added some height to the speakers. Legs stained and installed.Center of horn at 29 inches now. Currently using crossovers from a parts express buyout. Only the tweeter portion of the crossovers are being used. Attached is a zip file of the crossover being built.
     

    Attached Files:

    Zonker92 likes this.
  11. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    The schematic for the crossovers is attached. Not the correct symbols but understandable.
     

    Attached Files:

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  12. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Crossovers built. The added board is to allow for the added woofer section. Installing later today for testing.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Thanks to EarlK the crossovers are done. I listened to them for about an hour. Much better now. The bi-flex has been tamed. Very balanced between the horn and woofer. Graph of the speakers taken at 3 feet . Mic centered mid point between horn and woofer. UpAndRunning (1).JPG
     

    Attached Files:

    EarlK likes this.
  14. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    The next step is to make these look better. The first picture is when I brought them home.I used Watco rejuvenating oil on them.Four coats and here are the results.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jul 8, 2018
    EarlK likes this.
  15. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Next step. What to do about the grills? I will not be foaming them.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

    Messages:
    386
    Location:
    Northwestern NJ
    I'd recommend making a new set out of furring strips or similarly sized wood and installing new pegs. Should be easy to build a square frame and staple speaker cloth tight around the frame with peg holes and a new peg set. (or two section frame to have the original look)
     

     

    Please register to disable this ad.

  17. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    Thank you for the reply. The original board will be cleaned and reused. The existing hook and loop fasteners are still in good shape. I have some grill cloth to try out. This weekend hopefully.
     
  18. Sam08861

    Sam08861 Active Member

    Messages:
    386
    Location:
    Northwestern NJ
    You may already know this, but It appears the original had projections from the boards about 1” to which the speaker cloth is wrapped around.

    So to match that would simply mean making the top and bottom frames that attach to the board and gluing/screwing or nailing together. Also I think the originals used pegs to accommodate this weight but good hook and loop should be OK (3M type ) but plain old Velcro might not take the weight.

    If you’re just covering the existing board and not concerned about making it have the original look for now velcro should be just fine.
     
  19. Katalyst

    Katalyst AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    621
    Location:
    Indianapolis, Indiana
    I had some time today to work on the grills. Scraped the leftover foam off. Painted them to prepare for the next step.
     

    Attached Files:

    Sam08861 likes this.

Share This Page