Amplifier Question

[supertack]

Alright, at the risk of soundin like an idiot, I need some info. I'm more of an early 80s Sansui fan, where as, I can sense most of the folks here dig the 70s stuff. I currently have an A1200 amp, RG900R Eq, T700 tuner, P-D15 Turntable, S620U Speakers & a Sony CPD-CX220 200 CD disc changer. I got the Sansui stuff in '82, & have been into it ever since. I didn't get a CD player with the system, & upgraded to the Sony from a crappy Pioneer a few years ago. I've always loved the 125 watts per channel of power that my A1200 amp puts out. However, in all my EBay searches over the last year, I very rarely see that vintage of amps come up. There seems to be a plethora of AU-ect. amps, & most of you folks seem to calmer about pickin' up these types of units. My question is this, why is that run of amps so great? Is it the power output, or how well it's made? Also, If I wanted to get one of those 70's amps, which is a good unit to get? Lastly, & most important, if I got a 70s Sansui power amp, could I still use my A1200 as an integrated amp?

Thanks folks, love the forum.

 

[1420-1503]

The 70s was Sansui's most successful decade, whereas in the 80's the company faced financial difficulties and became less consistent with their high-quality tradition,
although their upperscale editions aswell as their homeland products were still top and full of pride by the blessing of Mr. Ichiro Ohshima's hand, Sansui's new and last hi-end product manager.

Their good efforts in the 80s are mostly uncredited in the west.
Eventhough by far the eldest product, when I got this Sansui AUX1111 few months ago, it was the reference amplifier from a hi-end store.
The force and inspiration for the development of these products however came from looking with nostalgia at long-past decades, the 60s and 70s.

These products were full of character, pride and soul, many of 80s stuff lacked it.

I'm not familiar with your A1200 but if it has power amp connections you could connect a power amp to it and let your integrated function as a pre-amp, but these specialised products from the 70s are especially expensive.

Alternatively you can also a 70's integrated to function as a poweramp in your set.

But, those often sound fantastic on their own and I question if this setup would improve on the AU or if it would do disgrace to it.

If not really tight on budget, the best would be to take the plunge and get whatever...so you'll have a much better idea as you'll be able to sense the 70s spirit and sound,
this will be your best education and then you'll be smarter you'll see how you can incorporate your A1200 in the set, or not.

 

[john_w]

Just my observation on individual units that I own -- and keep in mind these are really fairly subtle differences: If you're more of a "treble head" and really value the extra punch from really good reserve power, maybe check out the early 70's stuff, such as the AU9500. If you like more ample, accurate low end and lower midrange (though really still in a good, natural balance), the late 70's stuff is great. My AU-919 ('79) is my favorite Sansui integrated. Huge, custom designed filter caps seem to really stabilize the supply. The low end on the early 70's stuff seems more diffused. The AU-717 seems to be a happy medium, and is probably the most popular integrated in the Sansui line.

They're all great amps!

 

[supertack]

Wattage Means Nothing?

The more I look at the older amps, it's hard to overlook the fact that those units (at best) are puttin' out around 100 w.p.c. I would think you'd need speakers to keep up with your amplifier output, but assuming so, Why go with an AU-919 (which I've seen for a pretty penny) as opposed to something made in the 80s that has more w.p.c? Is there a difference in the sound quality of those earlier units? Don't get me wrong, that AU-919 looks cool as hell, but don't ya need the guts to back it up? I've always loved the 2 ft. thickness of those older amps, but if your givin' space & power, ya better be pickin up alotta quality in return, don't ya think?

 

[BeatleFred]

Well, if you would like to know more about the answer to your question, why dontcha post a pic of the inside of your amp, and then compare it to the inside of what an AU-919 looks like? Which amp do you s'pose has the (much) larger power supply ( 5 of them for that matter), transformers, capacitors, and so forth? Speaking of capacitors- how would 4 large oval 15,000Uf caps in the 919 fit into an A-1200? (as well as the more advanced heat sinking system)

The A model Sansui integrateds are decent but Sansui had them in mind to be used with budget (aka: modest), combo rack systems. These amps weigh alot less than an amplifier such as the far more elaborate AU-919, otherwise, they would cause the shelf to collapse in the Sansui rack they were marketed to be in.

B/F (and externally, meaning- cheap black plastic, the difference is quite obvious)

Pss- I'm not necessarily saying the combo models (A integrateds, R receivers, T tuners, B power amps, C preamps) are total junk, they are decent for the most part, and if anyone has a particular fondness for them- thats certainly ok, but theyre definitely not as good as the models in the main Line which were more expensive to buy, (and you get what you pay for)

 

[john_w]

Well, I had most of a long reply composed late last night and then my computer decided to spontaneously reboot itself. (Windows XP tends to do that when things aren't quite right.)

One of several things I did mention in the aborted post was the power stabilizing factor of those big caps. (Could this be why the lower half of the audio spectrum seems more focused and prominant?) You're going to run a much cleaner supply with a 919, and have a lot of reserve power.

Another thing to consider: There is a huge "law of diminishing return" with power output. Although it's obviously directly related to volume, it's not a proportional one. More specifically, in order to double the volume, you need TEN TIMES the power!! And unless you've got a huge room to run it in, 100 W or so is plenty.

Those old Sansuis are also notoriously underrated, as far as power goes. I know that the AU9500's consistantly test at over 100 W, and often up to 120 W or higher. They're rated at 80.
I can attest that cranking mine all the way (never a recommended action ) would consistantly blow fuses on 80 W rated speakers. Of course, I only did that a few times before the lesson sunk in. :stupid:

OK, I'd better send this before my system dies again.

 

[john_w]

And let this be a lesson to ya... Never put a right-parenthese behind a .

 

[dr*audio]

I think BeatleFred said it best; the mid priced stuff from the 1980s is just not made as well, nor does it sound as good.
My vote would be for th AU-9900 Integrated Amp. It is well made, sounds silky smooth, and looks very cool, with it's black 1/2" thick front panel, and silver knobs. Dual Power supplies, one for each channel. No 1980s mid priced amp has that.

 

[supertack]

So did the main line of product (not intended as rack system components), cease by a particular year? For example, the AU-919 was produced until when? Basically, when Sansui was producing the rack system stuff in the early to mid 80s, (A1200) what were the upper end counter parts in terms of amps?

Thanks again, great info.

 

[john_w]

I believe the AU-919 was produced only during the '78-'79 time-frame. BeatleFred probably has that one nailed down a little better than I do.

As for further info about production and specifics on various Sansui integrateds of all generations, I'd check out

http://www.sansui.us/Amplifiers.htm and http://www.sansui.us/Issues_Quality.htm

In fact, I'd recommend browsing thru the entire http://www.sansui.us site. It's got a lot of great information!

I have no personal experience w/1980's Sansui gear. I understand that some of the TOTL separates were excellent, however, and did have gobs of power. That's another one I need to defer to B/F for specifics.

Meanwhile, I'm waiting to get both of my favorite integrateds (the AU-9500 and the AU-919) back from the shop. The guy suggested a "tweek" to the 9500, and I'm letting him install some fast-acting caps in parallel with existing ones (which appear to still be in very good shape). That should give the bass a little extra "punch". This is taking a bit of a chance, but the guy seems to really know what he's doing -- at least much more so than the last clown I took my gear to.

 

[supertack]

Gettin' Up To Speed

Killer site.

From what I read & saw, it looks like I'd love to upgrade to one of a few of these units. The AU-D11 & 11II, AU-919, AU 517 & 717 all look awesome. What kinda differences would one expect from each of these units, or are ya kinda spittin' hairs considering they are all stellar? I'd like to get something a little newer, say between '78 - '84, but don't need the "cat's meow" either. Also, what should I expect to pay in gettin' one of these off an EBay auction. I've only just recently started looking, so most of the bids I've seen are in the $300-$500 range. Does anyone ever luck out, & get 'em for less, or is that being foolishly optimistic. I don't really have a problem budgeting that much, but it's easy to get caught over-paying on EBay if your not careful, speaking from experience.

Thanks.

 

[john_w]

Those bids sound high to me, at least for most of the gear you're talking about.

It's been a while since I looked at the e-pay prices, but you should be able to get an AU-717 in decent shape for under $250. An AU-919...I'm guessing a little over $300 or $350 would be typical. Those would be "good condition" prices, not exactly for mint units with the original box and manual. Of course, it's typical for newer models to trade higher, regardless of build or sound quality differences.

I found mine on e-pay -- it was in excellent working condition, though only fair cosmetically, but I still consider it a deal at $255 (not including shipping). It has a number of shallow scratches on the top and the face, and some idiot appears to have taken a small grinding tool to the upper-left corner of the faceplate. (cringe!!) But I really don't notice the cosmetic problems as it sits on the bottom shelf.

You never know what kind of deal you might find -- it doesn't hurt to submit a bid!

From what I gathered, I think the AU-D11 was the start of the plasticy, "budget component" phase for Sansui. But I'm not 100% certain on that, especially having never seen or heard one. It does have a few good stats on paper.

To my ears, the sound quality difference between my AU-717 and my AU-919 is noticeable (more than "splittin' hairs"), though it's not a stark difference. I think the 919 is worth the extra money, personally. The bass and lower midrange gain some focus and clarity with that unit, and I think the high end is a little softer. I know others' opinions vary on this topic. And it depends on your ears, your unit's individual characteristics, how well your speakers get along with it, your cables, your budget, etc. etc.

 

[BeatleFred]

supertack, Usually each model was produced in two year cycles, so the 919 was made in '78-'80. I believe it was introduced in the later part of '78 (and the early ones have spring clip type spkr terminals in the back, as opposed to binding posts on the later ones) The 717 was still being made in '78, so there is usually a period of overlap between the models. Also, it was typical of Sansui to add some smaller models in the Line in the following year, such as AU-217II, 117, to name a few.

Keep in mind, you can look thru Morden's database, (the 1st post thats a 'sticky' in this forum) which provides alot of information on this very subject. This database contains serial # Info which is constantly being updated- Thanks to Paul's diligent work, and from this info, it can better be determined what the beginning/ending dates of manufacture are for a particular model, otherwise, backissues of hi fi magazines (Which I have plenty of) will be helpful to date models, based on the ads and reviews that appeared in those emags at the time. (Example, AU-919 was reviewed in March 79 issue of Stereo Review, and 717 in Feb 78)

I believe the first combo rack models were the R-70/50/30 receivers, and A-80/60/40 integrateds which had matching tuners, in late 79/early 80, and Sansui made a whole bunch of other combo rack models in the 80's.

If youre interested in a Sansui integrated, have a look on Ebay, (just do a search on 'sansui au', and make a list of what strikes yer fancy, and I'm sure the good folks here can provide some recommendations from your List on what they think would be a good choice for you.

John: If you are having some work done on the 9500, I think its a good idea to be aware of any issues in the Service Bulletin:

http://gallery.bcentral.com/Gallery/ProductDetails.aspx?GID=4884061&PID=2849915&page=1&sortOrder=0

B/F

 

[john_w]

Thanks B/F. I'll definitely have to pick that one up.