Amplifiers all sound the same

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Always fun to spar with you, E-Stat. We both have come to the same conclusion about speakers; hard to beat 'stats.
I came to that conclusion in '76 after first hearing Dayton-Wrights. I must be a coherency freak. :)

I just don't hear these differences in amps that you and other claim to hear, having tried many.

Different points of reference. I've read threads where folks have compared the sound of a Sansui receiver to that of a Pioneer, Marantz, Kenwood and Onkyo and didn't hear any differences. I likely wouldn't either.

The first time I heard significant differences is when I compared a Crown DC300A to an Audio Research D76. That was when I was 17. One sounded mechanical; the other sounded like music. I've heard quite a few models over the years at the top of the game. I have been extremely fortunate to have two close friends who were audio reviewers and had access to a wide range of components. The very best experience was hearing a VTL based system using a 7.5 pre and Siegfrieds. One of the worst was a Halcro based system despite its claim for super low distortion.

My satisfied smile while listening is as big as yours, I'll wager. ;)
Of that, I have no doubt.

Perhaps some think that you must attach musical enjoyment with musical acuity. I don't. It does, however, serve to fool the senses more fully though. :)
 
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Back to my previous point, I can scientifically tell you what is a good amp and what is a bad amp (same for pre-amps). Period... There should be no discussion here. Any alteration of the signal is bad. Period. Yes some people may prefer the bad amp over the good amp, but that does not mean it is better. Some people may prefer a used Yugo over a new Porsche, but the Porsche is a better car.
 
You are right, science cannot prove. However science can provide the framework to PREDICT and MODEL and MEASURE. Science was behind the space trips to the Moon, it predicted how much thrust was needed to achieve space flight; it modeled what trajectory and what velocity was needed to circumnavigate the Moon, it measured how far the Apollo had to travel before attempting a landing, and it led to a successful mission.

So even a disbeliever like you must admit that science can be useful, and when used in a properly described set of paradigms, science is either "right" or can "prove things."

Excellent point. I went on to say "science is merely a belief system". That statement does not convey what I was trying to say, not at all.

I'm going to over look the space exploration stuff, because it falls in the realm of politics, IMHO.

Science is not to be trivialized. The world we live in, from the bed we sleep, the floor we stand, the clothes we wear, everything we contact in our daily lives is derived from science. Man created the modern world using science.

I am definitely not a non-believer. I believe in science. I also believe in God.

The scientist would say there is no knowledge without empirical evidence. I say one can have knowledge without it. It's not worth arguing about. I won't preach the gospel either.

I did not come here today...to tell you...about Jesus.
And I did not come here today..to ask...for your money.

:D
 
Back to my previous point, I can scientifically tell you what is a good amp and what is a bad amp (same for pre-amps). Period... There should be no discussion here. Any alteration of the signal is bad. Period. Yes some people may prefer the bad amp over the good amp, but that does not mean it is better. Some people may prefer a used Yugo over a new Porsche, but the Porsche is a better car.

You can't scientifically tell me anything. A more expensive car is not a better car if you can't afford it. No discussion? Find a neo-fascist web site.
 
This is a perfect thread to ask this question, "How many of us have had their hearing tested regularly?" It's a serious question, not meant to be facitious, but hearing can and does diminish over time, especially when you pass a few decades of your life, and get into those midlife years and beyond, I have to have mine checked due to the nature of my job, and for 30years, I have thankfully not experienced much in the way of decline.
That being said, I CAN hear the difference between amplification, from good to better, and bad to good.
 
While I do believe one amp can sound better overall than another, and certainly can sound different, The extent of the improvement is determined by the quality of both the source and speakers.

When listening to my Energy RC-30 towers for example (which I use for Ht), which are what I call mid-fi, The difference between driving them with my NAD preamp//tuner and power amp, and my Bryston Integrated amp (the better of the two) is noticeable, but not as much as the difference in price would suggest. When listening to my Reference 3A Veena II Towers (the better of the two speakers) then there is a much bigger improvement. Big enough to justify the price difference. Both are based on using my best sources.

When using my lesser source, the advantage of the better amp is almost negated when driving the RC-30 speakers. When driving the better speakers, there is an improvement, but not worth the extra cost. The ONLY time the better amp provides the kind of listening experience I expect from a higher end amp is when it is used with speakers and sources that are up to the task.
 
I've had a Technics AV receiver n my vid setup that sounded pretty decent suffer a power surge that scrambled it's power supply. A second surge after repairs left it again lifeless so I found a similar Pioneer AV receiver to replace the sweet Technics and cannot abide it's hard edged lifeless sound for long with my hearing aids in, I would very much like to have a decent sounding simple 2 channel AV back I'm that setup.
On another note, an experimental simple tube amp has sidelined my beloved updated Iverson Eagle 2, I love what this thing is doing to draw me into the music, it's just sublime and it's not done yet.
Yes, amps sound different but the last two undoubtedly will measure differently regardless of how it's done, the AV receivers I dunno but I got the sonically hideous Pioneer instead of another Technics at the same thrift shop and wish I had a do-over on that.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
I told the OP that my Sansui would blow his amps away. I want to retract this statement. Over the course of this past week, I've been listening to a more modern, less expensive receiver. It has 40 watts rms less than my Sansui, and it's a Harmon Kardon.

The HK 3370 sounds just as good as my coveted Alpha-X Sansui. The differences are so subtle and minor, that I'm embarrassed to have bragged so much about the amp in my avatar.

Of course, once I recapped the Sansui, I'll be back in the bragging saddle again. :D
 
While I do believe one amp can sound better overall than another, and certainly can sound different, The extent of the improvement is determined by the quality of both the source and speakers.
Surely.

As for source material, I enjoy listening to the classic 60s-70s rock of my youth, but don't use it for evaluating the imaging qualities of a system - since there is little to be found with that content.
 
I've had a Technics AV receiver n my vid setup that sounded pretty decent suffer a power surge that scrambled it's power supply. A second surge after repairs left it again lifeless so I found a similar Pioneer AV receiver to replace the sweet Technics and cannot abide it's hard edged lifeless sound for long with my hearing aids in, I would very much like to have a decent sounding simple 2 channel AV back I'm that setup.
On another note, an experimental simple tube amp has sidelined my beloved updated Iverson Eagle 2, I love what this thing is doing to draw me into the music, it's just sublime and it's not done yet.
Yes, amps sound different but the last two undoubtedly will measure differently regardless of how it's done, the AV receivers I dunno but I got the Pioneer instead of another Technics at the same thrift shop and wish I had a do-over on that.

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

I picked up a HK (Harmon Kardon) 3370 for $50 at a garage sale. It's a modern receiver (2003?) 2 channel, no frills except for remote. It sounds excellent.
 
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