Analog Optical Recording

Discussion in 'The Cutting Edge' started by OldADC, Feb 5, 2018.

  1. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    I was in a record store the other day and say $30-$45 pricing for vinyl. I hadn't track new vinyl prices in a bit and was a bit astonished. The selection was clearly oriented toward people who would buy based on whatever perception they have of the superiority of analog and vinyl and the growing size of these selections would indicate that $40 is a tolerable price point. At least for enthusiasts. Thanks for chiming in.
     
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  2. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    I kind of see this as similar to other luxury high end goods....Swiss watches vs. Seiko, Ferrari vs. Toyota, Gucci vs Coach vs rack brands for ladies handbags. I am in full agreement with you. If it isn't simply Sisyphean, then the how small is small and is that big enough is exactly on point!! Thanks.
     
  3. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    http://www.ru.nl/hfml/research/levitation/diamagnetic/

    https://journals.aps.org/pr/abstract/10.1103/PhysRev.123.1613

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earnshaw's_theorem

    The one topic no one has taken up since my original post is a diamond/cantilever that is magnetically suspended and damped. 3 pages in and I completely got away with that one? Hah!!!

    Read the three references above on diamagnetic levitation, pyrolytic graphite, and stability criteria (Earnshaw's Theorem) for magnetic suspension and levitation and you might can envision how this would work out.
     
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  4. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    Ok, it have sense to be careful. You dont need to explain precise how that stuff work but some hint will be good. ;)
    About price... I mean that price is not questionable for medium but for equipment yes, it is very questionable to be for everyone who want good sounding recorder and player. Today we can to buy very nice Hi quality CD player and turntables for less then $1000, e.g. Pioneer DV-300 for $20 have signal from SPDIF output better then Goldmund itself. TI produce OPA1611/1612 Op-Amps with more than excelent signal output. I think that today Hi-End production of equipment is another dimension and that equipment you can sell for $30.000 but how many pieces. As you see MQA is nice idea but what we have from MQA as normal living humans?! I`m not Bill Gates or Elon Musk to go into shop and put finger on one thing in shop and say please can you pack me that lovely Goldmund CD player and pay $6000 from my credit card then go to cofee as if nothing had happened before and as if I had not spent those $6000. Today market is all about price, if you have cheap thing for everyone, you are in, if not then you are out. You can see example VHS vs. BETA. Personaly I think that is good idea.
     
  5. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    How much do you think it'd require to get to the proof-of-principle demo?
     
  6. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    Only one spy picture from finished product will be good. I think that on this way nobody can to understand what happen inside and your discovery will be safe. If you have one sample from recorded and played sound like Pink Noise in high bitrate this will be more then excelent and i think that all will be happy. Btw, I`m happy now for your great discovery. ;)
     

     

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  7. maxhifi

    maxhifi AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    you mean something functionally similar to optical film sound, but recorded microscopically on a disc? I would imagine wow and flutter would be of major concern, as well as an adequate signal to noise ratio. Would be interesting to hear what your ideas are about how to make this a practical idea?
     
  8. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    We are misunderstandig... Did you have working project or not or that is only idea? Can you record and playback sound from this equipment or not? I can understand from your words then you cant to produce analog sound from that equipment yet but you can to record analog audio signal on this medium?! If you can to produce sound from recorded media you can also to capture this sound on FLAC or WAV format with 192kHz/24bit audio sample rate... or not?!
    Sorry if I'm too annoyed but I'm pretty curious and I'm very interested in this new sound reproduction principle. It sound to me as very interested idea, something new on our audio world...
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  9. EngineerNate

    EngineerNate AK Subscriber Subscriber

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    As 99.7% of new music coming out is recorded digitally, processed digitally and mastered digitally, I don't really see the point. You' have to have extraordinary abilities in marketing combined with a ridiculous number of connections in the industry to cause a sea change in the way modern music is recorded and released. If you can't do that, and it simply becomes another analog way to listen to digitally created music, it's technically impossible for it to improve on what we already have in digital lossless audio formats. You can't put information in that isn't in the samples. If your only application is in modernizing old completely analog recordings, your market will be extremely limited and again, your system will be hamstrung by the limitations of the technologies previously used to record.

    You can have the most perfect analog playback device this side of a live concert but if there's no music to be played with it or the music available is pre-compromised by it's previous format, it's a rather fruitless endeavor. I have to agree with @restorer-john on that point.

    I'm also of the opinion that the superiority of analog and vinyl especially is primarily euphonic as opposed to any technical advantage. I'd not be surprised if a "perfect" analog system ended up sounding rather digital. Combine that with the elimination of the experience and nostalgia of vinyl playback and even the most hardcore analog supporters are likely to question the benefit.

    On the other hand, a new cartridge tech sounds interesting and fun. No reason not to explore that avenue. If it sounds good and can be used with standard turntables there's already a market for it.

    Cheers
    Nathan
     
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  10. steerpike2

    steerpike2 Super Member

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    Commercial CDs are not "written", they are mechanically stamped, just like an LP record, with a physical impression made into the plastic, an entirely mechanical process. This means they can (or could) be made in vast numbers very quickly. Could your creation process be made mechanical ?

    The fidelity limitations of Laserdisc / Laservision are not a consequence of the optics or the laser, they are a limitation of the modulation system used.
     
  11. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    If I get some of this right, duplication is only by laser write.
    It would be interesting as a modern equivalent of minimalist DtD live take recordings. The process main features would be very wide freq response, better than LP stereo separation, and touchless analogue recording and playback. No tape head or stylus wear or head/stylus alignment issues in either recording or playback. Also possible is constant velocity playback to assure even resolution capability across the entire disc.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
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  12. FileFixer

    FileFixer Well-Known Member

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    Yes, what with moving parts, they missalignment never happen?! ;) :)
     
  13. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    "Never" is a long time. The process as I see it should be as reliable as any other high quality optical disc tracking system. Alignment for optimum pickup of the two polarized light channels should be easy enough to ensure.
     
  14. Pio1980

    Pio1980 AK Member Subscriber

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    I could be totally wrong on my understanding of his proposal, take my posts with that caveat.
     
  15. ripblade

    ripblade Super Member

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    Yes, but is the tech available to the recording industry? Digital had a nearly 20 year head start in the studios before the consumer could play it back directly.
     
  16. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    Right on all accounts, Pio.
     
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  17. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    The tech isn't available today. The materials that are used to capture the recording are just now being understood in their properties. Well, in the last 15 yrs or so but the chemistry guys aren't all that fast in getting stuff out to application space. Their always worried about stuff like toxicity, environmentals, etc. So there isn't broad knowledge of the materials or the process I am discussing outside of a fairly narrow space of chemical spectroscopy. Yeah, its a long row to hoe to bring such a system to market.
     
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  18. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    98
    Location:
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    No, it requires a direct write by a beam. Can't do it mechanically. But high speed optical duplication is used in any number of high density data storage environments.
     
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  19. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    Location:
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    Thanks. No spy pictures available yet. But when the time comes, if it comes, I'll be happy to post here first. Most likely, a developmental picture will look like every other optical lab bench....no matter what you are doing, it is amazing how all optical/laser lab setups end up looking the same with the mounts, positioners, lenses, beamsplitters, etc. You can be in the game as deep as anyone and stare at another guy's table and not be able to figure out what he is really trying to do without him telling you.
     
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  20. OldADC

    OldADC Member

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    Location:
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    It really isn't like film sound. While film sound was analog, it was essentially a variable transmission gate. The blocked part and the clear part changed with the frequency letting more or less light through. This works fundamentally different.
     
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