I've heard distinct differences in cheaper cables that I compared. Blind? Nope. They were both the same price (free or nearly free) so I really don't know what would have swayed me. I'm also not saying it was magic- the common parameters of cables differences certainly could explain it. I can't say I heard differences in the expensive cables, because I never made the comparison. I'm not saying they aren't there, I just never listened to my expensive cables and my cheap cables back to back. I'm currently running decent but cheaper cable because my fancy ones are too short (and ugly- they look like garden hoses), and don't match my carpet. I had bigger fish to fry- I wanted my living room back from the stereo monster. But I'm still open to the idea that the more involved ones from Audioquest sounded better. I may make that comparison later today. Or I may just sit on my butt and listen to tunes.
Anti-Cable for Speakers - Worth it for a mid-fi setup?
- Thread starter J English
- Start date
I've heard distinct differences in cheaper cables that I compared. Blind? Nope. They were both the same price (free or nearly free) so I really don't know what would have swayed me. I'm also not saying it was magic- the common parameters of cables differences certainly could explain it. I can't say I heard differences in the expensive cables, because I never made the comparison. I'm not saying they aren't there, I just never listened to my expensive cables and my cheap cables back to back. I'm currently running decent but cheaper cable because my fancy ones are too short (and ugly- they look like garden hoses), and don't match my carpet. I had bigger fish to fry- I wanted my living room back from the stereo monster. But I'm still open to the idea that the more involved ones from Audioquest sounded better. I may make that comparison later today. Or I may just sit on my butt and listen to tunes.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
When I sold back in the 70's, I was at a Bose Salesmen's event introducing the Bose 501's. They popped a ten inch reel onto a very nice open reel deck and we listened to the whole sales pitch, with narrator, music samples, etc. We were blown away by the sound quality.
Then it was break time and they told us to put on a record and listen. I put on Juice Newton's "Queen of Hearts", a favorite of mine at the time. They sounded like crap. And that went for every other record we put on.
I've figured out that even in double blind tests, if the people with skin in the game are setting it up, they can process the source to make their product win. Heck, I just set up an interim home theater system in my home using a harman kardon sub (from an old fried Festival 80 system) and a couple of small Advent bookshelves. It had a weird low mid peak. I slapped one of my 1/3 band equalizers from my PA in the chain and I am blown away by the sound every time I put in a movie or concert. I'm afraid to touch anything for fear I'll ruin the sound.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
Actually I did the high end circuits through Seattle quite a bit. A couple of the guys I worked with in the 1970's are STILL selling high end stuff. I've done the comparisons ad-nausium. When the first monster cables came out I did a/b comparisons until I was blue in the face. And knowing the difference between objective and subjective information is something that is imperative in my function in my career. It's a major part of what I do - bring others to an understanding of when they are leaving the realm of the objective into the realm of the subjective.
Regardless, I think a little more civility may be in order. Seriously.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I'd have to see the cables in question. Frankly, my position on this whole thing is that if it is really bothering a person all that much, throw a mono block right next to each speaker. Speaker wire length will typically have more of an impact on sound than wire quality - assuming the same gauge.
I know we are all really into this stuff, but sometimes we are just arguing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. I especially liked your post on not needing to spend all that time with ABX tests. Life is short.
There will never be any civility in this debate until people get it in their head that they have no business declaring what anybody else does with their own stereo.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
or try this:
I remember way back when Monster Cable first came out. They had this sort of demonstration thingy that the salesmen used to compare it with "Brand X" speaker "wire" (not cable). The thing was a sham- they used something like 10'-20' rolls with Brand X consisting of 20-24ga stuff which would assure the impedance would exceed the 5% the speaker's resistance. If MC was inherently superior, why the ruse?
Is this something that actually happened, or is this audio legend? I'm fine believing it happened if I'm offered objective proof
Is this something that actually happened, or is this audio legend? I'm fine believing it happened if I'm offered objective proof
Oh believe me- I saw it.
Check RR's site about speaker cable- he's got the whole Moster Cable story there with a pic of the demonstration device- the exact same I saw in the audio salons.
I don't go to RRs speaker cable site anymore. I listened to McIntosh's speakers.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
I agree. But I think sharing opinions requested from the OP is reasonable.
I'm a cheapskate when it comes to stereos, but not as much as I used to be. It is because some things I thought were irrelevant really were not. But as I get older and these issues are resolved, one way or another, I find myself becoming more "steadfast" in my opinions on some things, and the jury is still out on others.
Having been in hi-fi sales for many years, I know BS when I see it. I got into a bit of trouble here on a thread a year or so ago about some company holding a solder joint for a full ten seconds to cool and how that (and other things) made their wire sound better. When the discussion had run its course, there was still nothing offered to show that it mattered one iota.
But ultimately that is not the point. As I get older, I find that I was fooling myself, pretending to like things I really didn't like, or vice versa. There are things that definitely improve your quality of life for a very low expenditure, while others offer a perceived improvement at a very high price. I got a tonearm lifter for my Kenwood KD500 for $15 that really improved my life. Paying $100 for speaker wire? Well, if I have nothing else to spend my money on, or it is a relatively small chunk of what I do earn, I would go for it. But the proof that the value is marginal at best is proven by the very fact that it is controversial.
It's easy to prove a Mercedes is better than a Yugo. In that case, nobody is arguing the fact. For good reason.
I'm seeing nobody "declare" what others should be using in their system. They are merely questioning the cost/benefit equation on some products. My belief is that you can throw whatever you want into your system. It's not my money, it's not my system and it's not my life. But I can at least have an opinion on a product, especially when someone starts a thread asking for exactly that.
I think a certain amount of skepticism is healthy, and anything a company says should be taken with the entire salt shaker, not just a grain or two of it. But what I don't get is the objective camp giving absolutely no credence to mounds of listener opinions, while at the same time 'blindly' embracing something as unproven (in how it relates to perceived sound quality) as the ABX test.
FWIW, I'm approaching this with no dog in the fight. If somebody were to prove to me that my AQ Columbia (or whatever they're called ) cables are bunk- it would literally make no difference as my speakers are wired with my cheap cable right now. Other things made MUCH more difference in the sound, and aesthetics won the fight here.
John, he didn't invent the MC story. Just as you would advocate keeping an open mind when it comes to other issues (with which I completely agree), the wholesale disregard of all knowledge of an accomplished audio engineer on one subjective basis- if you'll forgive me here- should equally apply- in the same vein.
I want pictures! Actually, I don't. It doesn't surprise me. Oddly enough, in my own cheap cable comparison MC won over some other brand at the same price. Yeah, MC is the cheap stuff here. Not bragging- I just don't consider $50 for a huge roll of the stuff to be that expensive. Its the XP in wall. The other monster type I tried sounded the same as the other brand who's name I can't remember. The XP is tied to my Quads now in short lengths. Length makes quite a bit of difference in ESLs.
He has a picture of it. Go look- you'll find it.
I'm not debating whether or not it's worth it - etc etc etc. Let's stay on track. At issue is a flagrant attempt by a manufacturer to misguide (mind blown) rather than educate. If you refuse to look, there's nothing else I can say.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
That RR story pretty much sums up my perspective on all this, and why I use estate sale wire. To be blunt, my sound system is a chain of parts, and the weak links are the ones that get my attention. Speaker wire, following simple "9th grade" rules, is at the bottom of the list of things to fix.
Same here in my living room. She wanted the cute little cubes. I didn't. My compromise was smallish towers and nearly invisible equipment and wiring. I used plenum rated #12 CL2 because the wiring runs are long and they run through the attic. One of these days I'm going to veneer them and make natural linen covers for the speakers.
RobRoy
It's just stuff - but fun
Yeah. I kinda live by the mantra "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence".
If someone tells me that they met John Travolta on a commercial flight, I'd probably believe them. If they told me they met the Pope, I'd require a bit more evidence.
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