Any Chevy guys here who can help me?

If any of the smog stuff goes on this it all has to go. The mixture control and the timing advance is controlled by the computer. Quadajets were used on non-smog applications, but they were ones without the mixture control solenoid. HEI distributors were used on earlier cars, too, but they were ones that had weights, springs, and a vacuum diaphragm to control timing advance.

If this system thinks its broken enough, it will go into "limp home" mode. The carb will go full rich, and there will be no timing advance.

It is misleading to think of the stuff on this car as smog crap. It's main purpose is to control the mixture and timing very precisely, and in doing so make the car run good. Good emissions is a side benefit (though one that was really important to GM at the time). When this system came along in '81, it was a big, big improvement.

Probably all of the "smog equipment" that is there is necessary for the car to run right, except maybe the catalytic converter.

If I'm not mistaken, the air injection is used to light off the oxygen sensor. If you have a one-wire (or two wire) oxygen sensor this is almost certainly true.

The mixture on these is a "closed loop" feedback system. When you adjust it, the adjustments you make (when you are close) don't make any difference in the mixture. What you are doing is moving things to the center of the automatic adjustment range. The engine should be hot and in closed loop. There is a green connector on the harness running along the top of the engine. There is one wire in it. You can hook up a DVM here that has a 'duty cycle' function, or you can use a dwell meter (hook the second wire to ground). You want it moving back and forth around 50% duty cycle. If youre using a dwell meter, 50% duty cycle = 30 degrees on the 6 cylinder setting.

You can run the engine at 2500 or 3000 rpm or something. The cruise mixture is set by the mixture control solenoid height. There are holes in the top of the carb to get the little double-d wrench in. There are two adjustments, you probably saw them when you were inside the carb. One is the solenoid height, the other is a stop. One has threads that are exactly twice as coarse as the other. I cant remember which is which, but if you move the fine one 1/4 turn, you would also move the coarse one 1/8 turn. What you are trying to do is move the solenoid up or down while keeping the total travel the same. (I think it's 1/4 inch). When you get it right the duty cycle will be moving back and forth around 50% (or 30 degrees) and the travel will also be correct.

To set the idle, it is done the same way, but you use the idle jets. You start out with them set exactly the same, (I think this is 1.5 turns out). you make exactly the same change to both jets, and watch the meter. You also want 50% (30 degrees) at idle.

If the air injection and vacuum hoses are still all screwed up this probably wont help. I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but these cars typicallly run like complete crap unless all the engine control stuff is working.

Good luck

John
 
Last edited:
Nick_the_'Nole said:
other problems I noticed...are that...the transmission jumps when you put it into gear
Check to make sure your throttle linkage isn't too tight. If it doesn't have a little bit of slack in there, the torque from the motor will pull on it when you put it into gear, and the car wants to take off by itself. Leave 1/4" - 3/8" of play in there before it starts to actually pull on the carb linkage.

I swapped a motor in a car real quick once, didn't double-check everything, took it out for a test drive, and the darn thing did a brake stand by itself at the stoplight! Popped the hood, backed the linkage off a bit, and problem solved.
 
As stated before, you might have the idle speed set too high...

A quick way to tell is with the car running and in drive, let go of the
brake - the car should creep very slowly forward just on the idle alone.

If it goes faster than say, three MPH, then you have the idle speed set
too high.

Scott
 
I remember bolt kits to use after you pulled the air injection system off. Lots of folks used it 'till the AIMS test (visual only emissions), there were a lot of swearing people (had to put it back on, a lot harder).

Remember when you didn't have to be an electrical engineer to "wrench" on cars??

Pete
 
piece-it pete said:
Remember when you didn't have to be an electrical engineer to "wrench" on cars??

Never stopped me! :D

I just read a lot of books! :thmbsp:

Especially when I want to know "what does this thingy do?" :D

Scott
 
If it doesn't have a little bit of slack in there, the torque from the motor will pull on it when you put it into gear, and the car wants to take off by itself.

That is exactly what it does. Didn't notice if the linkage was that tight, but it prolly is.

As for the emissions control, well, if it's necessary, I think it's all still there to hook back up. I'll hafta check and make sure the air pump isn't frozen... what do I do if it is? Can these things be rebuilt and unstuck, or would I have to drop cash for a new one? Also, I'm pretty sure half the vacuum hoses are connected wrong (partially my fault and partially the previous dude's)... Is there anywhere I can get a decent diagram of where they're supposed to go? Like I said before, the manual I have isn't too helpful on the subject.

I was wondering what that little green connector was for... it's not supposed to be connected to anything?

And lastly, I'm assuming I shouldn't try any adjustments to the carb until I get the emissions system working properly?

I'm off to go track down the electrical gremlin, then set to work on the other engine issues... wish me luck.
 
Hm... so... is there no way to mod my existing carb to work without the emissions controls? I can deal with redoing jets and such and converting out parts in a distributor, but where do I start and is there anything more I'd have to do?

Reason I bring this back up is this: It turns out I need a new AIR pump - $50, EGR valve - $35, possibly a diverter valve - $100, and god knows what else I haven't gotten to yet. I don't have a helluva lot of cash to throw at this thing right now, so I'm thinking if I have to drop money into it I should go a route that will simplify the system, maybe upgrade the performance a bit, and, most importantly, never leave me to deal with this shit again. Reasonable, no?

I know of a junkyard nearby that would prolly have parts I could use, and I may even check into a different carburetor. Would it work to switch to a '70s model Q-Jet and distributor pack?

Edit: Oh, and it was a bad diode pack in the alternator. Got a replacement for that and will put it in along with some new resistance wire to the indicator light later today. Need a break now though...
 
Last edited:
I got nothin' on the mods, but for the hoses etc. I'd look for a factory manual on That Particular Online Auction Site.

And folks think stereos are expensive!

Pete
 
The little green wire is only there for you to hook your meter to. It isnt normally connected to anything. Trying to adjust the carb probably wont help either unless the other stuff is working. make sure the vacuum hoses are all on and tight. this system isnt very tolerant of leaks.

Smog pumps can often be saved. They have to run dry, lubricating them destroyes them (probably by holding abrasive dirt on the vanes, but I cant remember). Anyway, they have to run dry. Some of them have a rear cover that can be unbolted. You then willl see vanes that move in and out of the rotor when they turn. They probably rusted a little and stuck to the outer case. A little real careful tapping with something soft and harmless, like a plastic tipped hammer, or a plastic screwdriver handle may break them free. Try turning a little why you tap. work it until its fairly free. It will probably sound terrible while youre turning it by hand, but that will likely clean up. On the other hand it could be completely shot if you live in a really moist climate, but I have saved a bunch of them this way, even in Seattle.

A Mitchell vacuum diagrams manual covering Chevy for that year should have the vacuum diagram. These are expensive, but your library probably has it, and maybe you can copy the pages you need. Write down your VIN number. There is a digit in your VIN (I think it's the 10th, I forget), that identifies the engine/engine control combination that you have. Everything you look up in the manual will reference to that digit.

Another thing to check for sure is the EGR valve. if you put a vacuum pump on it's hose, or suck on the hose it should open. If the engine is idling, this should kill the engine or at least make it run horrible. If thats ok (the diaphragm that opens it) we go on to the valve part. You take it off and put a piece of cardboard under it. Oil filter box works well. You probably have to cut one hole because there will be a thing sticking down. The idea is to temporarily block the valve. one hole connects to exhaust, the other to the intake manifold. Your little temporary blocking gasket needs to seal, because of the intake manifold port. Leave the vacuum hose dsconnected and plugged for this part. If blocking this makes the engine idle a lot better or faster, the valve is probably bad.

John
 
The air pump is totally f**ked. Popped the pulley and fan thingy off of it, and all sorts of rusty shards of metal fell out of the inside. Haven't managed to get the case apart to survey the damage, but that's a huge pile of shit on the ground underneath where it's sitting, so it's clearly pretty extensive.

Already tried the test on the EGR, and I'm guessing the diaphragm is shot, since it makes no real difference in idle. (The thing idles like shit and stalls out regardless of what I do.) I should've tried the valve, but I took the alternator off before I thought to check it.
 
Nick, I think our posts crossed in cyberspace. If you want to get rid of all of it, I think at the barest minimum you will need a different carb and distributor. the carb can be about anything that will fit, but it has to be one that controls the mixture itself based on engine vacuum without the help of a computer. It should be something you can get jetting for easily, because you will likely have to change it. The distributor should have vacuum and mechanical advance. HEI is good. One from '75 or '76 (this is a small block chevy, right?) will be the simplest. they also make new aftermarket repros of this, available at any speed shop.

Maybe I'm prejudiced because I used to work on these all day long, but these cars ran great when they were sorted out, and quite a few smog era cars without electronic engine controls ran lousy..... Anyway, getting the jetting and timing curve sorted out sounds like a lot of work to me. This is also assuming you can still get tags for it after you do this. You could where I live, but probably not in California, for instance.

I dont think you will get a performance increase this way, unless you take it a lot further. The reason cars from this period had less power than some of their '60's brethren was low compression and retarded cam timing, exhaust restriction from catalytic converters, and lousy fuel. Little valves and wires and smog pumps had little if anything to do with it. Note that the air pump has a belt thats way too small for a three horsepower lawnmower...

Does this car have compression on all cylinders? Dont spend anything at all trying to get it to run right if it doesn't.

On the other possibility, fixing the engine controls, it is possible to get by without air injection. the only thing the control system uses it for is to "light" the sensor. You could install a heated (3 wire) oxygen sensor. It would need key power, a relay and a fuse. These cost more and dont last anywhere near as long as one-wire sensors, but this is a possibility if the air injection is really hosed/expensive.

Egr valves are a low-reliability part. Never buy a used one. Used air pumps are probably ok. Diverter valves need to be checked carefully, I probably wouldnt buy used. Used check valves will probably be bad.

Good luck

John
 
Ditto on the HEI. Me and my son just built a 71 El Camino for his car. After looking at Mallory, Accel, MSD, etc., it was cheaper to take an old HEI I had laying around and completely rebuild it. Perfect for the street.
 
I'm mainly looking at the matter of cost-benefit here, while also keeping open the possibility of future performance upgrades.

Assuming they have what I'm looking for, I can get a '70s Q-Jet and HEI distributor for less than $50 at the junkyard, and prolly more like $30. Put in a little work on the jetting and adjustments, disconnect the electronic crap, bolt on the carb and distributor, hook up the brake booster and such, and I should be good to go, right? No air pump to replace, no EGR valve to deal with, no expensive whatzit that got filled with metal shards from the air pump going out, and a much less cluttered engine bay not having all those extra hoses everywhere. This, as opposed to spending that same $50 and prolly more to fix a complicated emissions system that I really don't care about and will prolly want to remove down the line with the eventual headers, cam upgrade and head work. (I live in Florida where there aren't any inspections, and a well-tuned car without emissions controls can run pretty clean anyway.)

This all seems reasonable in my mind, but is it feasible in actual practice?
 
Sounds to me like you bought a car that someone from California drove there and retired and adiosed the car. Again, Blue Lateral knows the newer stuff better, but if you're going to make those changes, I think you'd better remove the EGR valve from the manifold and block the ports off. (speed shop part) Otherwise, if it's leaking, it will continue to do so even though the vacuum line is removed.
 
Too bad you're not here in Ca. I have all that crap laying around in the warehouse...............
 
Oh, yeah, I'm definitely going to remove everything and block off what needs to be blocked off... but before I undertake that I want to make sure my plan will work. Older carb, older distributor, rip shit out, put simpler shit in, adjust it and have it run.

And you're right, this is a California car from a retiree. Unfortunately he was a retired Chevy mechanic who didn't know the newer cars very well...
 
I'm pretty sure, but that's like being almost a virgin. Blue would be my final word, from what he's posted so far.
 
It can be done! :yes:

I did it to my 85 Chevy Silverado... the 305 in it ran much better afterwards! :thmbsp:

You have to be careful as to what you remove and how you change things.

Scott
 
If it were mine, (and I don't know the Florida smog laws), I would:

Run a compression test. If good:

Pull all the smog stuff off and have a contest to see how far you can throw it. Most of that stuff wasn't scienced out anyway. Keep the PCV valve feeding into the air cleaner.

Put on an HEI ignition, Carter AFB carb, Weiand manifold, Competition Cams cam, headers with crossover pipe feeding dual hi-flow cats, and Walker DynoMax mufflers. Do that, and you'll have a decent more that runs well, is reliable, is as clean as a 22-year-old Chev is going to be, gets mileage in the high teens around town, and is easy to work on.
 
The actual mechanicals in the engine are fine... I may daresay even nearly good as new. Though it doesn't look it, the car only has a verified 82k on it.

I'm not really too familiar with the Carter AFB, but wasn't it designed for larger engines and possibly be a bit overkill for what I plan to make into a fairly mild 305? I'd prefer to stick with a Quadrajet, as I've already figured out how they're set up, and it'd also allow me to do upgrades more in stages as I can afford it. Plan is to keep it mostly stock minus smog equipment now, with just a Quadrajet and an HEI system, then do headers and Flowmasters (and no cats). After that, do a mild cam upgrade and put on an Edelbrock Performer intake or some such equivalent. Finally, to round everything out, and this is a bit farther down the road, I'll take the plunge on some World Performance Torquer heads. My ultimate goal is only about 230-250hp and decent gas mileage, which I think I can achieve with such a setup while not breaking the bank.

So now, it's just a matter of gettin' my ass down to the junkyard to get the parts. That'll be either tomorrow or Saturday.

God I hope this works... I now have less than a week before I have to drive this beast 450 miles down to Miami. Could get interesting.
 
Back
Top Bottom