Any electricians here ?

[Vintage TX]

I have been remodeling the shop the last month here, and also a bigger AC-unit.
Realized now I need more outlets and checking the circuit-box it's full....
Shop has (1) 15 amp breaker and is 1300 watts.
If I run the AC 12.000 BTU (115 volt, 7,6 amp) with 14 gauge wire to the breakerbox and turn the security lights on in the front-yard..the breaker trip directly..
So I checked the box for adding a seperate circuit.. none left.
I also upgraded the lights inside with fluorescent light with a total of 240 watt.
That is not included all the other outlets I want to use with testing, music listening, soldering etc.
Was thinking adding a small fridge but seems a side-panel has to be added to the first one...
Any ideas what to buy and how to do this the right way.
Before I had a big 220 unit AC/Heat but that monster was hooked up on a seperate line and pulled more $ $ then the house..
I changed that line to my compressor instead also 220 volt.
Also the main panel with meter is outside and the only panel is inside the house.

Any ideas ?

 

[Reel 2 Reel]

Sounds like its time for a panel swap.......How big of a service panel do you have in there now????

 

[WildWest]

Yeah, I'm an electrical contractor.
You say you "checked the circuit box and it's full". Is that the main circuit box for your home and whole property or merely a sub panel breaker box in the garage? Regardless, if you have no room for new breakers you can make room by changing out the full size (full space) breaker to a wafer circuit breaker. Thus making room for two breakers in one space. Surely in your town there is an electrical supplier that deals to the retail walk in like yourself that can direct you to the right breaker. Just have the brand of panel box written down when you go. Call around first...

Now, when you turn on your security lights and the breaker trips directly with only the 8 amp AC load then that tells me a direct trip is a dead short somewhere and you have a problem in the lights. I mean, certainly you can't have more than a couple of amps in lighting out there do you?

Anyway, we could go back and forth, back and forth here and I would tell you for a few cents a minute that you best bet is to call me and I can direct you faster. As I read your post it is so full of holes that I can't get to the bottom of things and a telephone call would save us both a lot of time. Shot me a PM if you like.

 

[Reel 2 Reel]

I was thinkin' 'piggyback' breakers...but not all panels accept them...or it might be an older panel with ...oh ....what the hell kind were they.... oh yea "pushmatics....eitherway... need more info......Call WW....easier than postin all the time......

 

[Vintage TX]

Thans for answering.
I got a TM 1280 box and it has 19 breakers.. No extra spaces left to fit some more.
Last time my electrician was here and added the 220 line for the AC, he told me next time you need a bigger panel or subpanel.
Was OK until now when I replaced the old 220 AC-unit with this 110 instead.
About the security lights, they are 100 watt each and we got 4 light assemblys with 3 lights on each one. total 1200 watts.
Lights the whole front-yard up But if I kick on the AC and the security lights is on, the breaker flip...
Nothing wrong with the lights Wild West, just need more juice
I think a subpanel is the only way, but not sure what model to buy, most economic and reliable ?

 

[Reel 2 Reel]

Is that a square D or cutler hammer ,siemens, GE.. ....who makes it....

and what size is the Main breaker??

 

[WildWest]

TM 1280 box? Well in 25 years of this industry that doesn't help me. What brand is it? Anyway, while it may be full I can't help but wonder if it is full of half size or full size single pole and two pole circuit breakers. If it is the ladder then you should be able to wafer some out and make room. Yeah, 1200 watts of light is 10 amps plus that AC it overloads the circuit.

Any brand of sub panel is ok. They are all about the same. But I would try to find one with a copper buss in it rather than aluminum. And one in which you can use most of your old circuit breakers. (save a buck) What is the main breaker size that feeds this sub panel now? Changing the whole panel out is always a last resort. There is almost always ways to add something without doing that.

 

[Jim Eck]

Is anything currently hooked to the old 220 circuit that the previous AC was hooked to?

If not that circuit can be spit into 2 110 circuits.

Jim

 

[Vintage TX]

I checked again here and it's a GE. Main feed is (2) 100 amp breaker.
It's a ladder rail but no space left to mount more.
If I want to set a subpanel up in the shop what gauge should I use from the main breaker to subpanel ?
The 220 line is feeding the compressor now, had to unplug the AC to use the compressor ..:
Sorry for the confusion guys.......

 

[Reel 2 Reel]

There ...that helps a bit....I got GOOD news and some BAD news .....

The GOOD news is that ...you can set a sub panel...and run some new circuits from there...a 50 amp with about 10 spaces should work ....

The BAD news is that it will probly put a heavy load on your existing main breaker...and you might...just might...have problems tripping the main from time to time...because the whole system is drawing off it... The compressor...the A/C unit....electric Range.....electric water heater...and all those pieces of stereo equipment that you have running ..blasting the neighbors with!!...

Either way ...its up to you to make the decision...but ...always consult a 'qualified' Electricion (jeez..I cant even spell that rite!) to make sugestions for the exact systen your using...and what needs to be done....we cant do that for you from in here

Good Luck in your endevor......

 

[Vintage TX]

Hi Gary,
so do you think it's better maybe to run a new wire from the meterpole box instead ?
I was planning to add some more outlets for the barbeque evenings with blasting music and extra yard-lights in the back
But also later on this year a addition to the living room maybe (more space for gear) :
That would need a "couple " of outlets also. But the shop and the planned addition is wall to wall.
Do you think a subpanel could hold for this or should I call a electrican ?
They are picky in this town with permits for everything..
even a doghouse you need a stupid permit for.
But of course I don't want a big Ooops here and the house burn down...after I run the wires and flip the switches Gary.
Any suggestions ?

 

[Vintage TX]

Are you a qualified electrician Gary ?
You need to come down to Texas for some barbeque and Mad Dog for 2 weeks.
We can scare the old people around here and most likely the cops swing by for a beer also
(they always do)....

 

[Reel 2 Reel]

Sounds like fun...I could use a bottle of MD right now....where in TX are you ...my mother lives in Corpus....and she is tryin to get us to move down there...

I dont have a licence...but I do have way more than the hours required to take the test....bout 10 - 11 thousand...and only 8,000 is required..so .....the other thing is my expierence is with residential ..hardly any comercial expierience at all..so that keeps me down too...its a whole nuther' world there.....

I do the make up on 99% of all the panels we do..bout' 90 a year....so in that aspect ...I could do it......well got to scoot ....thats what I have to do today...and the boss is callin on the Nextel already...catch ya later.....

 

[Vintage TX]

Corpus is not that far from Houston Gary.
And no snow
But Mad Dog is not in my cooler but we can fix that

 

[WildWest]

From your original post it sounds like you merely need one more circuit? Like one for your A.C. load? If I am reading that right. Anyway, you can remove one full size GE circuit breaker and replace it with two half size (wafer) circuit breakers then run the proper conductor in a proper manner. While this increases the heat load it can work and very will save you money changing out the panel.

With the extra work that you mentioned you are doing you still may get away with your existing service. If it were me and I was adding more outside lights I would install low voltage lighting as it reduces the load on the system. It also is safer and easier to install. Also the kinds of fun things you can do in a residential situation with low voltage is kewl. My company specializes in lighting so take it from me. www.Lightcompose.com

A load calculation will tell you if your 100 amp service will run everything. I have a gut feeling though you are running near the edge. If you like, I can do a load calc on your property for you. Merely answer some questions for me.