Any Forte Audio owners and fans?

thedelihaus

Nocturnal transmissions
Anyone familar with the Forte Audio line?

A "budget Threshold", Forte Audio was a Nelson Pass (of Pass Labs and Threshold fame, to name a few) company who put out lots of true "Class A" amps. Plenty powerful, and would bring tears of joy to some of my audiophile friends.

The Forte line also produced some class A/B amps. Not much is said about the class A/B amps- of course, these are the models I'd like to learn more about.

So, any Forte fans?
 
Anyone familar with the Forte Audio line?

A "budget Threshold", Forte Audio was a Nelson Pass (of Pass Labs and Threshold fame, to name a few) company who put out lots of true "Class A" amps. Plenty powerful, and would bring tears of joy to some of my audiophile friends.

The Forte line also produced some class A/B amps. Not much is said about the class A/B amps- of course, these are the models I'd like to learn more about.

So, any Forte fans?
I'm a big fan. I have 4 amps (2 Model 3's, a Model 4, and a Model 6) and a Model 2 pre-amp. Both the Model 3 and Model 6 are 200 wpc Class A/AB amps; they operate in Class A for the first few watts, then transition to Class AB. The Model 4 is 50 wpc pure Class A. All four of the amps I have run hot.

Currently, I'm use the two Model 3's in a horizontal bi-amp configuration with Infinity RS-IIb's, and the Model 6 is in my bedroom system powering RS-IIIb's. These amps have handled the low impedance dips presented by these classic Infinity's with nary a hiccup.

The Model 4 is out of rotation right now and awaiting a restoration by Jon Soderberg of Vintage Amp Repair. When it's been refreshed, the Model 4 will go on the mids/tweeters of the RS-IIb's in place of one of the Model 3's.

In terms of sound, the Model 6 displaced an Adcom GFA-555 Mk II which I had used quite happily on the IIIb's for more than 15 years. The Model 6 (and the Model 3) takes everything that the big Adcom does well and takes it all to whole new level. Bass is even more articulate and extended. The mids and treble, the one performance area where the Adcom is frequently criticized, are quite a bit smoother and sweeter. I don't like the term 'tube-like' very much, but these amps do not have any hint of harshness, edginess, or etch that is sometimes associated with big-watt SS amps. For the money these amps go for usually, I think they are an out and out bargain for the performance you get.
 
i am also using a Forte 3 right now. it was biased a bit hotter into Class A (up to 20Wpc or so) and does run hotter than my Threshold 400A, probably because the heatsinks are smaller. i like the sound a lot :) in comparison to the 400A, which has a tube-like reputation, the Forte is more in your face and a touch harsher, but that's not necessarily a bad thing as i think some people would find the 400A too laid back and warm. one thing that surprised me was how light the Forte was in comparison to most 200wpc amps - it's probably about 35 lbs. build quality is still perfectly acceptable, though.
 
I have had the pleasure of listening to Tedricks Forte Audio/Infinty RS-IIb system, and I must say that it was IMPRESSIVE. I definitely include Forte Audio as a brand I wouldn't hesitate to grab if the right deal presented itself.
 
thedelihaus I still have a Forte 1A amp (class A 50wpc) that I used prior to purchaseing a Threshold SA3 amp (class A 50wpc). The Threshold was preowned and had been updated by Jon Soderberg of Vintage Amp Repair within the last 5 yeras. Prior to getting the SA3 I had the bias adjusted on the Forte 1A. The SA3 cabinet is impressive and would win any audio beauty contest, the sound is just as impressive as the appearance, powerful bass and smooth mids and high end. Both amps run warm to hot, to be expected with any class A amp, but not a bad thing on a cold New England night. The Forte amp wont win a beauty contest for the design/appearance of the cabinet but when it comes to the sound of the amp I have to say that the Threshold SA3 sound wasn't noticably better than the Forte 1a. Forte may of skimped on the cabinet but where it counts the guts a lot of what went into the Threshold amps trickeled down to the Forte line. I would highly recommend the Forte amps if your on a budget and looks isn't a priority.
 
I owned and enjoyed a 4A amp for a long time before passing it along to another AKer. Sweet little amp.
 
Waking up an OLD thread. . .

I just acquired a Forte Model 3. As received, the heatsinks remained cold when on, so I adjusted bias and the heatsinks now get nice and warm. It's interesting that there appear to be no electrolytics besides the four big filter caps, which is nice to avoid feeling the obligation to recap.

It's quite different than the B&K EX442 I just sold. Clearer, more extended highs, less warm. But a better match for my darker SS-M7's.

I know the 3 can be converted pretty easIly to a 1a, but I don't know whether 50W Class A is enough for my 86dB speakers, and whether the sound quality upgrade justifies the increased heat and power consumption. Esp as I understand the Model 3 is Class A up to 20W or so.
 
Another poke to the sleeping thread. I have a Forte 55, a 100 wpc class A/B amplifier that is very nice. As I understand, this was the last in the Forte product line. I bought this long ago when my Hafler DH-200 was having problems. I have since fixed the Hafler and now have two nice SS amps to switch out with my tube amps.
 
How does the model 3 stack up in the line up? The 4,5 and 6 have those IGBT that are no longer available correct? I recently bought an Hafler XL600 off the bay and when tested both channels were blown and no the outputs are no longer available-good thing I got my money back-wew!
 
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I have had a FORTE MODEL 3 in my main system for a while now. I needed the extra oooomph to drive my Magnepan 1.6QR speakers. I'm very happy with this combination.
 
Just got a Forte Model 3 and the left channel is distorting in high frequencies. Any suggestions on what to do? Is it worth fixing?
 
Just got a Forte Model 3 and the left channel is distorting in high frequencies. Any suggestions on what to do? Is it worth fixing?

Definitely a nice amp - it's the main amp I'm using in my main system. Are the heatsinks getting hot? Probably needs bias set, but I don't know if that will clear up your high frequency distortion problems.
 
Definitely a nice amp - it's the main amp I'm using in my main system. Are the heatsinks getting hot? Probably needs bias set, but I don't know if that will clear up your high frequency distortion problems.
(Noob question) How do I set the bias? If it clears up the distortion that would be awesome! Anything before I return it or fork out money for repair...
 
(Noob question) How do I set the bias? If it clears up the distortion that would be awesome! Anything before I return it or fork out money for repair...

It's not a noob question at all. But fair warning - setting bias can be touchy and one wrong move (a slipping probe, turning a control too much) can cause more damage. If you're familiar with taking measurements and tweaking controls, you should be fine if you take things slow and are very careful.

Do the following with the amp unplugged and OFF:

You want to look for two bigger "emitter" resistors of value 0.47 ohms. You also want to look for two adjustment "pots". They're variable resistors that allow you to change the value by using a small screwdriver and turning the pot control.

Look to see where the pot controls are set currently - this is very important.

If your pots are like most on these units, they're likely dirty/oxidized and aren't providing the right value to the circuit. If (when the amp was on) your heat sinks are cold, this is the case. They should be quite warm to the touch. If they're ultra-hot and you can't leave your hand on there for a few seconds, that's also not right. They should be around 50C or thereabouts. But of course if the amp is unplugged and off like it should be now, they'll be cold.

The right long term thing to do is to replace these pots with new ones - preferably multi-turn pots that allow you to precisely set the values without risking a small change making a big resistance change. But if you don't want to go there just yet, what can work as a temporary fix is to exercise the pots (turn the controls back and forth to remove some of the oxidation and "clean" the controls a bit). So the reason you want to note where the pot is set currently is because after you exercise the pot a bunch of times, you want to return it to the original position. Don't exercise the pots with the amp on - only with the amp unplugged and off.

You can place small clipping probes on either side of one of the 0.47 ohm emitter resistors and set your DMM to DC voltage mode. What you'll eventually read will be in the mV range.

If you've successfully exercised the pots and set them back to the original position and set up your probes across the emitter resistors, then go on.

Plug your amp in and turn it on.

Read the voltage across the emitter resistor. It should be ~70mV. If it's lower and somewhat close to this value (say 40-50mV or higher, but below 70mV), I would just wait to see if the heatsink on that side of the amp warms up. If it does and it's fairly warm, but not really hot, you may want to leave it. If it's cold or really hot, you can slowly adjust the pot control - I believe counterclockwise will make it go down, clockwise up. You'll see the effect of the movement on the voltage. Be conservative and set it to say 40-50mV and see how hot the heatsink gets.

Check the other emitter resistor and repeat the process.


When I got my amp, both heatsinks were cold. I exercised my pots and set bias, and got the heatsinks warmed up nicely. But even with the heat sinks cold, there was no distortion and it actually sounded fine. Since I set the bias a few months ago, one of my heatsinks has gone cold again. Exercising the pots to "clean" them doesn't necessarily last. I need to replace my pots as a long term solution.

If the above all sounds pretty intimidating, I wouldn't mess with it yourself. You may want to post your location and see if there's a local AK'er whose set bias before and can help you.
 
I just got a model 3 and its running in my main system now and its never leaving my house. Its a sweet sounding amp indeed and meets my power needs. For the $500 range this is hard to beat
 
I had a model 4 amp for a long time and really liked it - very smooth and very clean sound. I currently run a Model 2 pre-amp in which I have replaced the op-amps. I am currently running the Sparkos Labs op-amps as they take this really nice pre-amp to a completely different level of transparency, depth and breadth of soundstage as well as frequency extension on both ends. The Forte line is really good sounding equipment (for the most part) that can usually be had a bargain prices relative to the performance that they are capable of delivering.
 
It's not a noob question at all. But fair warning - setting bias can be touchy and one wrong move (a slipping probe, turning a control too much) can cause more damage. If you're familiar with taking measurements and tweaking controls, you should be fine if you take things slow and are very careful.

Do the following with the amp unplugged and OFF:

You want to look for two bigger "emitter" resistors of value 0.47 ohms. You also want to look for two adjustment "pots". They're variable resistors that allow you to change the value by using a small screwdriver and turning the pot control.

Look to see where the pot controls are set currently - this is very important.

If your pots are like most on these units, they're likely dirty/oxidized and aren't providing the right value to the circuit. If (when the amp was on) your heat sinks are cold, this is the case. They should be quite warm to the touch. If they're ultra-hot and you can't leave your hand on there for a few seconds, that's also not right. They should be around 50C or thereabouts. But of course if the amp is unplugged and off like it should be now, they'll be cold.

The right long term thing to do is to replace these pots with new ones - preferably multi-turn pots that allow you to precisely set the values without risking a small change making a big resistance change. But if you don't want to go there just yet, what can work as a temporary fix is to exercise the pots (turn the controls back and forth to remove some of the oxidation and "clean" the controls a bit). So the reason you want to note where the pot is set currently is because after you exercise the pot a bunch of times, you want to return it to the original position. Don't exercise the pots with the amp on - only with the amp unplugged and off.

You can place small clipping probes on either side of one of the 0.47 ohm emitter resistors and set your DMM to DC voltage mode. What you'll eventually read will be in the mV range.

If you've successfully exercised the pots and set them back to the original position and set up your probes across the emitter resistors, then go on.

Plug your amp in and turn it on.

Read the voltage across the emitter resistor. It should be ~70mV. If it's lower and somewhat close to this value (say 40-50mV or higher, but below 70mV), I would just wait to see if the heatsink on that side of the amp warms up. If it does and it's fairly warm, but not really hot, you may want to leave it. If it's cold or really hot, you can slowly adjust the pot control - I believe counterclockwise will make it go down, clockwise up. You'll see the effect of the movement on the voltage. Be conservative and set it to say 40-50mV and see how hot the heatsink gets.

Check the other emitter resistor and repeat the process.


When I got my amp, both heatsinks were cold. I exercised my pots and set bias, and got the heatsinks warmed up nicely. But even with the heat sinks cold, there was no distortion and it actually sounded fine. Since I set the bias a few months ago, one of my heatsinks has gone cold again. Exercising the pots to "clean" them doesn't necessarily last. I need to replace my pots as a long term solution.

If the above all sounds pretty intimidating, I wouldn't mess with it yourself. You may want to post your location and see if there's a local AK'er whose set bias before and can help you.

Wow! Thanks for the detailed instructions; I might give it a whirl... My dad is an electrical engineer and has a good meter. Is that all I need besides basic tools? Worth noting - I didn't even have the amp on 15 minutes before noticing the issue, so it never got a chance to warm up.

The inside and outside of my unit is near flawless. Super clean. What year were these made? Is it hard to find one is this good condition? I'm tempted to hold onto it and repair it but I also already spent 500 for a unit I thought was working perfectly. I could take that money plus the money I would use for repair service and simply buy something else (maybe a threshold s300)
 
They're from the late '80's I believe and anything of that age is rarely pristine. Mine has some nicks and scratches here and there.

Yeah, you really just need a meter and I'd use the small clip on wires to attach to the emitter resistors so you can clip on while the amp is off and measure while the amp is on without having to try and probe inside in real-time.

It's a great sounding amp and power doubles from 8ohms to 4ohms. Has plenty of drive for tough loads. From what I could see, no electrolytic caps in the signal path. As far as maintenance, I was just going to replace my bias pots and the four main filter caps and it should be good for another 20+ years.

I would try to adjust the bias as a potential cheap/easy fix and if that doesn't do it, then you can evaluate your options whether to spend more to fix or go in a different direction.
 
IMG_20170731_182123.jpg

Could you point out where the bias pots are? Lol. I'm a real rookie. And where exactly to clamp + and -?

Thanks!

I saw a picture of the inside of one of these where they added much larger capacitors and a second toroidal transformer. What would that yield in terms of performance? How much would that cost to have done?

Thanks again!
 
OK, now you've jogged my memory on how it looks inside. There are actually 5 sets of emitter resistors - 10 total. They are the larger gray bodied resistors. They will all measure a little differently. In my case, I measured them all and set bias so the average was roughly right. But I've also read where people didn't even measure the emitter resistor voltages and used temperature as an indication of correct bias. I double checked my temperature (using one of those laser point and shoot temperature gauges) to make sure I was in the ballpark.

Actually, before you do anything, I think establishing a baseline is a good idea. It's helpful to know what the amp seems to be doing before you actually touch or change anything. I'd turn on the amp and let it warm up (you don't need to run a signal to it or even have speakers connected). See how the heatsinks feel. If either are getting too hot right away, turn it off. But I'm curious what the bias conditions are like now and the heat of the heat sinks will give you an idea of whether the bias current is low (cold heatsinks) or high (too hot heatsinks). As mentioned, mine were stone cold but the amp still sounded fine. But I've worked on receivers where the bias setting was too low and it did make the channel sound bad and correctly setting bias make the channel sound normal again.

After you get a baseline, unplug the amp, note the position of the bias pots, exercise the pots then set back to the original position, clamp your probes, double-check everthing, then you can plug in, turn the amp on, and measure the voltage across the emitter resistors. Have your screwdriver ready to adjust the pots. Especially if the heat sinks were too hot when you checked your baseline/current state, you're going to want to turn the bias pot(s) down right away. Turn slowly and observe the voltage change. You're really concerned about absolute magnitude - if the voltage reads negative, you probably just clamped the check points in reverse of the way the current is flowing, but that's no big deal.

I drew green boxes around your two bias pots. There's one on each board. I drew a blue box around just one of the 10 emitter resistors. You would clamp to each side of one (or more if you wanted to measure more than one) of those resistors. Luckily, as you can see, they're pretty easy to access and I'd just clip onto the top one of the pair instead of trying to get to the bottom ones. Since there's only one single bias pot that's going to control the bias current to all of those output transistors, you're not going to be able to get them all spot on anyway - you just want to be in the ballpark.

To keep things simple to start with, I'd just focus on 1 or 2 emitter resistors on each side and see how they measure. I'd set to say 50mV to start with (instead of going to 70mV) and leave it for a bit and see how the heat sinks feel. Should be pretty warm, but you should be able to keep your hand on them comfortably for as long as you'd really like. If you do have one of those laser temperature things, shoot it at the heatsinks and you want to be somewhere around 50C ballpark. Keep in mind that it will take some time for the heat sinks to change temp once you make a change. And even once you get it to where you want it, you should monitor it after further warm up to make sure the values have stayed the same after warm up.


Forte.jpg
 
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