Anybody Installed a Fireplace Insert?

[Njord Noatun]

First off, we really don't much heating here right at the beach: Nighttime winter temps lows average in the low '60Fs, and rarely dip below 50F, so if I ever get cold, a sweatshirt and a pair of wool socks usually do the trick. However, my wife gets cold (might be a female thing?) and tends to want to turn up the heating occasionally, and she gets support from our sons.

When I got my house, there was no heat whatsoever installed here (!) except for a plain wood-burning open fireplace, as was typical for the 1940-50's era homes in our neighborhood - they were constructed without heating. I have installed a gas central heater, but sometimes we want that added ambiance, but also heat, generated by the fireplace (wood).

Trouble is, our fireplace practically does not produce any heat at all: The heat goes straight up the chimney, and it only heats once thoroughly warm, and only then if we sit right in front of it, on the floor.

Has anyone here converted an open fireplace with a fireplace insert? What are your experiences? What kind of, or brand, insert should I be looking for? What features should I be looking for? Is the installation cost prohibitive? I can go wood or gas - there already is a (capped and shut off) gas supply to my fireplace.

Thanks for any thoughts.

 

[usedto]

Some fireplaces are built to work, and some are built to look at. If yours is a tract home, it probably isn't efficient. If not, you might try this first:

Since the coast tends to be windy, you might be drafting too much. First, install a good cap on the chimney. That alone can make a big difference. Then, try choking the damper down a bit to slow the draw. You want the smoke to leave, but don't want it to draw all of the warmth out.

 

[Sam Cogley]

I agree with the above. Don't run it with the flue wide open, all the heat will go straight up. You just want enough of a venturi to pull the smoke out. My last house was a circa-1980 tract house with a fireplace, and I could get the main living area extremely toasty with the fireplace. My cat loved to lay directly in front of it on extremely cold days.

 

[merrylander]

When we had this house built a double walled steel fireplace was a must given that the electric company was gaiven to frequent power outages. Not sure if such a unit can be installed in an existing FP but it is worth investigating.

 

[x_25]

We have an insert that was there when we bought the house. We actually heated exclusively with for two days during a power outage with the temps in the 20's (*f) and it was warm downstairs and in most of the house and livable (with an extra blanket) in the bedrooms. Even cooked on it.

 

[Njord Noatun]

I had forgotten about the technique of partially choking the damper - so thanks for reminding me! However, I tried it last night, and it didn't seem to make much difference, if any at all. I really think my fireplace is simply very inefficient - not that I know what an efficient one looks like, mind you.

So if x_25 or anyone else have gone through the process of putting in an insert, I would be interested in getting details from them about brands, costs, features, etc.

Having said that, it is 79F here right now, forecast 81F tomorrow, and hardly any pressing need for additional heating...:tresbon:

 

[Fisherdude]

All fireplaces are grossly inefficient, and there really isn't much you can do about it, other than changing it from a "fireplace" to something else.

I might be able to give you some input, though. When I lived just outside the entrance to Yosemite National Park for several years, my wife and I actually heated our 1,700 square foot home exclusively with wood.

We installed a pretty high-tech fireplace insert into our traditional fireplace. The insert had a thermostatically controlled combustion blower and hot air fan. You would start a fire in the insert and close the door. After a sensor reached a certain temp, a blower would start that pulled air from floor level, around the back of the firebox, and out through vents at the top. I hung an oven thermometer in front of the air vent, and the air coming out was at 350 degrees. A second sensor controlled air through the firebox to keep the burning at a constant level. I could stuff a few small oak logs in before we went to bed, and it would still be blowing slightly warm air when I got up in the morning.

The insert was in the great room at the center of the house. The room had a slightly vaulted ceiling with a ceiling fan. I would let the insert warm the great room, and then turn on the ceiling fan. You could stand halfway down the hall leading to the bedrooms and feel a wall of warm air moving down the hall.

Because we were up in the mountains, wood wasn't too expensive, but if you live in an urban area, this wouldn't be the most cost effective method. If you're just looking for an auxiliary heat source, it might be a very good idea. A pellet-burning insert would also be something to consider.

I'll see if I can dig up some pics from the family album!

 

[DENNYDOG]

I agree that open fireplaces are inefficient. You have to run them for quite a while before you start getting any decent heat out of them. Another thing is the wood doesn't last long. If you see high flames the fire is getting too much oxygen and most of the heat is going up the chimney.

If you have access to wood I would seriously consider a wood fired insert over gas or pellets. I looked at putting an insert in my fireplace quite a few years back and remember that they were not cheap. You are looking at a minimum or $1000 for the insert and then the cost of installation. Prices may even be higher than that now.

One benefit of an insert is the wood will last much longer and you will be able to pull a lot of heat off from a small amount of wood. An insert is basically a wood stove that fits inside your current fireplace. You should be able to heat your house for a whole day with what you would normally burn up in just a couple hours in an open fireplace.

I just rebuilt the floor in mine and am in the process of building something like an insert. It will have a front that will close off the opening along with a set of arched glass doors. I am designing a heat exchanger that will capture some of the heat that would otherwise be lost. I bought a couple small squirrel cage fans that will be mounted in front below the door.

This is what it currently looks like.

 

[Mark W.]

Njord I heat my house with a stand alone pellet stove and one thing I would mention is that MANY areas are looking at restricting wood stove and fireplace use to limit green house gases and particulate (how ever stupid that idea is). I would suggest you not look to us for advise but to the outfits in your local yellow pages with the 3 biggest ads. And see what they have to say. Many of these places sell all three types of inserts. Any stove of insert sold in CA is going to meet Oregon safety and Emmision Standards (for some reason Oregon is the state that does this kind of like CA and auto's) And will be UL rated so if they are for sale with a big reputable dealer they will be a quailty product.

After you know what is goign on in your local area you can decide which option is best for you. Pellets can get scarce at times during the winter and Wood is a freckin bitch to deal with everythign from Bugs and spiders to the physical work out. Gas well Gas is gas it goes up. But it also is not effected by the green movement and requires much less in the way of venting.

ALSO ANY CHANGE TO YOUR FIREPLACE BE IT THE INSTALLATION OF AN INSERT OR A CHANGE TO THE CHIMMENY make sure your home owners insurance co signs off on it. Usually a couple good photo's is all that they would need. BUT they might also require an inspection. I know for a fact that if you install a wood stove or pellet stove here in Oregon without an inspection and your insurance company signing off. They can disallow any claim on your house that involves fire EVEN IF THE STOVE/INSERT HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH IT. So be double sure.

just my two cents

I have lived with wood or pellet heat since 1984 WE like you have no built in heat our only source of heat is our pellet stove.

In an average year we use 3.25 tons to heat our 1650 sq ft house at $5.29 a 40lb bag. we as of this year (a one dollar increase a bag) spending $850.00 to heat our house. Silverton is just above the 45th parallel and an hour from the coast.

 

[justw]

I have had an insert and I have removed one as well. They can run a stack of double wall up through your existing chiminey and attach it to the top of the insert. Which makes for a nice safe installation. The inserts protrude a foot or so into the room which is where the heat is radiated from. The outside of the insert gets several hundered degrees, which is how it heats the room. I found the room gets so hot you can't stand to be in there and if the insert has blowers the sound is annoying. Not to mention the lingering odor of burnt wood. But, they work fine. I think I would go with the aforementioned pellet stove if I were you.

 

[www.records]

When we bought our house there was an insert in the fireplace. I had it inspected (after we had bought the house) to see if it was safe and to get it cleaned. The guy who inspected it told us to not use it, or we would burn the house down. Come to find out, the idiots who installed the insert removed ALL of the firebrick in the fireplace to get the insert to fit. The insert is now sitting in the garage, all the firebrick has been replaced and we are enjoying the inefficient heat from burning wood to supplement our central gas heat. It is very inefficient, but it does help once you get a good bed of coals along with a nice fire.

I can't help on how to install an insert, but have seen how not to do it.

 

[Njord Noatun]

Somebody - a couple picking up a table I was selling on CL - came to my house the other day. THey looked at my fireplace and said "hey, you need one of those fireplace blower things!". Curious to find out what they were talking about, the guy promised to send me some photos of his fireplace blower. Today, he sent me the pictures of a contraption called the "Heatilater":

​

Totally awesome; insanely great: As you can see, a set of bent pipes with a small electric fan to push the input air. Apparently it also works quite well without the fan due to natural tendency for warm air to rise (through the pipes). The design appealed to my geekyness and frugality, and I was quite excited about it - finally an efficient and uncomplicated way to salvage some of the hot air before it exhausts through my chimney!

Here is the email exchange between my wife and me ad verbatim - we were both at work at the time:

I:

Wow, have look at this super efficient contraption! I will certainly look for one of these!

She:

Ludicrous - don't even think about putting that contraption in our fireplace-haha.

I:

That's fine with me – I am not the one getting cold!

She:

Rather cold than the Beverly Hillbillies!

So that was the end of that discussion (and idea!) - guess I need to go for a higher WAF-factor solution, after all!

:lmao:

 

[DENNYDOG]

That's too funny. Don't think I'm weird or anything but I was looking at building a heat exchanger a lot like that to go into my fireplace.

The only thing is everything would be hidden behind the front of the insert and doors. I have 3 very small squirrel cage fans that will blow the air. They will be covered with a small 90 degree cover that would go across the bottom front right below the doors.

 

[thunderroad]

Somebody - a couple picking up a table I was selling on CL - came to my house the other day. THey looked at my fireplace and said "hey, you need one of those fireplace blower things!". Curious to find out what they were talking about, the guy promised to send me some photos of his fireplace blower. Today, he sent me the pictures of a contraption called the "Heatilater":

View attachment 131158 View attachment 131159​

Totally awesome; insanely great: As you can see, a set of bent pipes with a small electric fan to push the input air. Apparently it also works quite well without the fan due to natural tendency for warm air to rise (through the pipes). The design appealed to my geekyness and frugality, and I was quite excited about it - finally an efficient and uncomplicated way to salvage some of the hot air before it exhausts through my chimney!

I've got a heatilator(sp?) like that myself, but you are only seeing part of it, the guts. Mine is a completely integrated setup that consists of a nice set of glass fireplace doors that completely enclose the fireplace's firebox. The part you are seeing in those photos is hidden. The fan sets off to the side in a small metal box with a speed controller that discharges into the tubes at the base of the unit. The heated air exits the tubes behind a nice screen above the glass doors. The draft through the fireplace is controlled by partially closing the damper and then throttling the draft with a small vent at the bottom of the unit below the glass doors.

I bought mine about 25 years ago mail order from an outfit in Pennsylvania and it has really paid for itself. I used to salvage junk wood out of the scrap pile of a local pallet company and heat my house with it most of the winter. Normally this wood would burn so hot and fast that it wouldn't be much good for a fireplace, but the heatilator allows you to choke down on the air supply and slow the burn rate down to an acceptable level. It'll heat so well that it'll drive you out of the living room if you let it, but it regulates real well. A slightly open window in the back bedroom of my house would create a draft that pulled the heat through the entire house. Worked real good!

Of course now we have "spare the air" days to help control air quality, whichs limits fireplace use, and the pallet company is long-gone, so I don't use it as much as I did.

 

[usedto]

Those Heatilators were made to just drop into any fireplace. If you're handy, you can build a manifold out of , say, rectangle tubing, that you can mount at the top of the firebox and "hide" it behind the screen, instead of setting it on the floor.

When they built the fireplace at my in-law's house, the heatilator was actually built in, and the exit ports were missing bricks in the face of the fireplace.