anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

The purple stylus in the photo is the Empire-made original. What they have for sale is a Jico-made replacement which I have not tried myself, though based on past experience I'd be cautiously optimistic about it. Has anyone tried this one?
 
been reading through this thread most of the morning, sending my head into a tailspin.
need a replacement stylus for a 2000e/iii do all 2000x and 4000x work with this?
 
Depends on what's meant by "work". The mid-to-late 1970s models, the ones we call blob-on-a-clip, all have freely-interchangeable styli, with the important exception of the small-hole 2000Z and its clones, which are usually easy to spot. A mismatch will not damage anything or produce distortion; it will simply make the overall output level, and more importantly, the output of high treble, go up or down, and depending on your needs or expectations, this is either a problem or no problem at all, or an improvement. Excess treble is more likely to be heard as a problem than a lack of treble. The greater the mismatch, the more audible the difference.

So if you have loading options and/or good tone controls on your electronics, you're more likely to be able to live comfortably with a mismatch. With styli getting vanishingly rare, you have to use what's available. As long as you know what to expect, feel free to experiment. If you have any doubts or questions about a particular cartridge or stylus, bring them here, and those of us who have actual experience of ownership (very important!) of the cartridge/stylus in question will weigh in.

I myself have had only what I consider middling/unsatisfying results from the inexpensive generic 2000E styli, especially the recent ones. I'm hoping folks who've tried the Jico replacements, which cost considerably more, will offer their opinions. Some have had success with the noncheap Shibata versions, but I don't recall offhand anyone trying the ellipticals.
 
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fortunately the generic ones are cheap enough that i wont feel too bad if they stink, 15-20bucks is nothing for a stylus.
dropping 75+ to be disappointed is a different story.
 
Hi everyone, been lurking around here a while. I really stumbled upon Empire by chance about 15 years ago when I bought a 2000E for a few pounds here in the UK. I was immediately a fan of its sound and knew all the fundamentals of great vinyl replay were present. Since that first purchase I have acquired a few other Empire gems such as 66PE/X (S910E, 0.2x0.7 nude, non tapered cantilever), the related 2000E/iv, EDR9 (don't need to say more) and various 2000E variant styli. For the most part, I have always find these cartridges easy to set up, good trackers and tracers with low IGD. However, there are physical limits to what an elliptical stylus can deliver particularly on well loved recordings - hence I have been toying with a line contact aftermarket option for the 2000E. I recently took a chance on an LPGear 2000E/iii Vivid Line stylus and thought it worth sharing my views for others. The observations on below were made on my modest system of a stacked platter GL75 in custom plinth, Linn Basik +, Little Bear T8 phono stage.

Construction;
  • Good quality aftermarket, seems a genuine MI stylus - as best I can see no heavy 'universal' magnet on the rear of cantilever and sound would indicate the same.
  • Straight cantilever (supposed thin-wall aluminium alloy) - not the thinnest I've seen but not the worst either
  • Stylus guard stays 'up' when in use and doesn't appear to vibrate although probably better removed anyway
  • Compliance: not specified but seems about right in a Linn Basik+ so I would guess around 20cu - probably slightly less than a true 2000E/iii but therefore a better match with most modern mid-mass arms
  • LPGear won't specify the OEM for these styli - it's definitely not JICO though (that much we know). My view is that this is probably either made by Nagaoka or Excel Sound Corporation - for reasons detailed below, there is some genuine engineering calibre that has gone into this stylus which suggests this comes from an OEM who actually knows what they are doing (that is not JICO).
Tip
  • Bonded 6/75um line contact - so that's approx same minor radius as a .2 elliptical with a significantly 'taller' major radius, equivalent radii to a Shibata
  • Very small shank unlike some lesser quality styli, helps with tip mass
  • Tracks perfectly at 1.5-2gm (not real difference noted between weights within this range)
Sound Quality
  • Fantastic - great separation, fast, tight well extended bass, silky smooth treble, retains trademark Empire fluidity in mid-band, detailed without being analytical. Crucially, this stylus is well balanced L-R which to me suggests the tip is well aligned on the cantilever.
  • For those that have the Astatic NMR N103-ED, the sound is broadly the same but with benefits of a better stylus profile - so dynamic, plenty of detail, maybe a touch less 'warm' than the original but very, very good nonetheless.
  • Good reduction in surface noise - I wet clean anyway but tested on a fairly well used record and surface scratches and associated pops were significantly reduced.
  • Very dynamic sound with high output level (one criticism of the JICO shibata).
  • Noticeably improves worn records due to larger contact area
  • Significantly reduces IGD even beyond .2 elliptical on all but the most hot cut/extended length albums
To me, this is a close as an aftermarket can come to an Empire original - it's not 'quite' the same (Empire owners know what I mean) but for me, the Line Contact benefits outweigh any downsides. Plus, I'm not forking out £££ for unknown quality NOS styli. Wholeheartedly recommended for the fairly modest price and by the far the best aftermarket for the 2000E family I have heard yet.

Thanks

Dave
 
Empire 2000 E/III on my Dual 1009.
I'm going to order a new cartridge holder because I can't get the corrosion off of this one.

IMG_3409.JPG
 
Thanks to Dave of the Many Nines for a most welcome review. We need a high quality alternative to the rapidly disappearing NOS styli for the 2000E and this one seems to check all the right boxes. Oh, and welcome to AK!

John
 
For those of you who are 2000Z fans, thevoiceofmusic has genuine S2000Z (Pfanstiehl 237-DEZ) styli for about $40 shipped [now ~$44 shipped] (same as the 239-DETs). I just got one myself and it's perfectly fine, so if you want a "real" gold-colored 2000Z stylus for your 2000Z cartridge, with EMPIRE picked out in red, get 'em before they're gone [They're gone.].
25a.jpg

Gary also has some good aftermarket 2000Z copies (4237-DEZ) for $14 [now $18] less than the genuine version. It's bonded instead of diasa, has a shiny instead of matte cantilever, wants to track at 1.25 to 1.4g instead of 1.0g and is a little bright, but otherwise looks and behaves very much like the original. Tracks Bangles LPs very competently at 1.4g. If you can't swing the extra for an original or if you need to track higher than 1.0g and a little extra brightness doesn't bother you, get one of these. Ask for one with a red dot on the cantilever and enjoy the expert glue job on the tiny diamond.
4237-DEZred_dot-a-crop.jpg
 
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Gary also has a handful of good aftermarket 2000Z copies (4237-DEZ) for $14 less. It's bonded instead of diasa, has a shiny instead of matte cantilever, wants
It is no longer 14, but 22 $. (4237-DEZ&4239-DET):(
wualta, 4239-DET is different from 4237-DEZ?
 
It is no longer 14, but 22 $. (4237-DEZ&4239-DET):(
wualta, 4239-DET is different from 4237-DEZ?

For a price difference of $14.00.

Functionally, there is no difference between the 237-DEZ and 239-DET. Specs are the same. It's always puzzled me why Pfanstiehl chose to assign these styli to different groups and ones in which they're different from and incompatible with the other styli in the two groups. I tend to use the Empire numbers S2000Z (gold), S2000T (blue) and S2000S (silver) but then there are other Empire numbers for these like S915E, used interchangeably with S2000T, and I still don't know if there's a separate number for the translucent yellow examples.

John
 
As boreas says, there's only a $14 [now $18] difference between the price of the original and the copy, which is why, as long as we have the choice, and your turntable can handle a heavy cartridge with a high-compliance stylus, I recommend spending the extra money for the original. I've edited my post to make my meaning clearer.

This red-dot 4237-DEZ indeed differs from the 4237-DEZ I bought a year or two ago, and differs in different ways from the chrome 4239-DET I got several years ago. The red-dot stylus is the closest approach to the original I've found so far, but I fear Gary has only a handful of them at most. UPDATE: He says he has "quite a few" [UPDATE to the update: All gone now.]

The yellow stylus is called S915E (clear yellow) on the user guide. If you're doing a search for these styli, take a hint from boreas and include the original Empire nomenclature (S2000Z, S2000T) as well as the later version (S915E).
 
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I'd give the red-dot an edge in tracking difficult high-frequency sounds like vocal sibilants, but they're similar in sound. One difference between the two is the cantilever-- the 4239-DET's is larger in diameter and much longer. It resembles the 4000D's (238-DQ,DEQ). Those who are picky about alignment will want to realign for the different position of the diamond, but they're both good styli if the original isn't appropriate to your setup for some reason.

UPDATE: Another difference is output level. The red-dot I have is noticeably louder than my 4239-DET. It's also a little brighter. If you need more kick from your cartridge, get the red dot. If not, the 4239 will do the job very nicely. It's up to the buyer to deal with the brightness-- I think the red-dot sounds best at 22k ohms loading in my system.
 
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