anyone else running vintage Empire carts?
- Thread starter gadget73
- Start date
I was saying that because, if you go back a couple pages in this thread, I had a couple previous posts where he helped me out. I just wanted to make sure he knew I was the same guy. Either way, I was confused at your earlier comment but this clears it up. Thanks!
So boreas is correct, the one you have is indeed a 2000E clone. I say it that way because a small percentage of Empire bodies were mislabeled at the factory. Gotta go with the measurements. When we get more data points-- more measurements from owners-- we'll know whether Empire intended the model to be a 2000E or 66 series clone, but what's important is knowing the characteristics of the cartridge that's in front of you.
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Collin1141
Well-Known Member
I have almost started to cry a few times at thrift stores after I saw, and thought about, certain items on display
If that's the total budget, I'd start a running search on eBay and other similar places for an original S2000E/I,II or III. As for the other tiers, I'm hoping we'll get suggestions. We'll have to see how stevo137's stylus performs.
What the the point of buying an original s2000e?
Simply that they are known-good styli, assuming they were stored properly. With the aftermarket, you have to invest in an investigation, and the results could be sucky. It's risky both ways, but when the aftermarket styli start approaching $100 for a plain 3x7 elliptical...
As always, I advocate cutting down the risk by buying from a vendor/seller with known-good customer service.
I'm sorry, I'm confused. The s2000e is a cartridge that is the same as mine. Are you saying I should buy the cartridge WITH a stylus in good condition? And would the replacements be the same for both cartridges? And finally, what about the needles on lpgear, thevoiceofmusic and turntableneedles.com? I.e. the Jico 239-PDE and such? I'm lost...
S indicates "stylus" in Empirespeak. So "S2000E/I,II,III" means styli for the upper-tier 2000E series.
You already have a 2000E-series clone body, so no need to buy a new body, unless you want to get in the fun-fun 2000Z game, of course.
As for Jico, we're slowly becoming aware that Jico likely (this is not a certainty yet) makes at least two quality tiers of styli. The best ones, apparently, are sold by Jico itself, and the prices are higher. I'm of limited help here, because though I've bought inexpensive 4237-DETs from thevoiceofmusic, carolesneedles and others, I've never been happy with any of them, and I've never invested in the Jicos that Jico sells, so I can't compare. That's what I'm hoping we'll hear from others here. Do a search and see if anyone has posted a comparison between the ~$20 styli and Jico's ~$80 (shipped) styli.
You already have a 2000E-series clone body, so no need to buy a new body, unless you want to get in the fun-fun 2000Z game, of course.
As for Jico, we're slowly becoming aware that Jico likely (this is not a certainty yet) makes at least two quality tiers of styli. The best ones, apparently, are sold by Jico itself, and the prices are higher. I'm of limited help here, because though I've bought inexpensive 4237-DETs from thevoiceofmusic, carolesneedles and others, I've never been happy with any of them, and I've never invested in the Jicos that Jico sells, so I can't compare. That's what I'm hoping we'll hear from others here. Do a search and see if anyone has posted a comparison between the ~$20 styli and Jico's ~$80 (shipped) styli.
Will do. I appreciate you taking the time to explain this all to me.
Edit: 2000z? I guessing it's $$$? Also https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=93758&start=30
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
The S in S2000E stands for stylus so it's not a cartridge but a stylus for the 2000E cartridge. On the other hand, numbers like 239-PDE are from a numbering system developed by and for Pfanstiehl Corporation who were a repackager of OEM styli and were and are a seller of aftermarket replacement styli made in Switzerland and Japan. This numbering system has come to be widely used as sort of a lingua franca for discussing styli generally.
As you will see below, there were five distinct 2000 Series cartridges. These differed from one another only in the stylus that came with them. That means that all five styli are compatible with any of the five cartridge bodies. This would hold true for both the original and aftermarket styli.
As for the four vendors you asked about, since the original styli are gone, save for the occasional solitary stylus that appears on eBay, they will all be selling, primarily, aftermarket styli. JICO is the lone exception as they're a manufacturer. In addition to direct sales by JICO, their styli are sold by LP Gear/Tunes and Turntableneedles. The Voice of Music doesn't sell JICO. Instead they sell other brands of aftermarket styli as well as original styli when they're able to source them.
John
As you will see below, there were five distinct 2000 Series cartridges. These differed from one another only in the stylus that came with them. That means that all five styli are compatible with any of the five cartridge bodies. This would hold true for both the original and aftermarket styli.
As for the four vendors you asked about, since the original styli are gone, save for the occasional solitary stylus that appears on eBay, they will all be selling, primarily, aftermarket styli. JICO is the lone exception as they're a manufacturer. In addition to direct sales by JICO, their styli are sold by LP Gear/Tunes and Turntableneedles. The Voice of Music doesn't sell JICO. Instead they sell other brands of aftermarket styli as well as original styli when they're able to source them.
John
Russooll
Active Member
The best 2000e stylus I know of is the LP Gear Vividline, (in current production) but at $90+ shipping it's just over your budget. I'm running Vividline stylie in 3 different Empire bodies and they sound very close to the Empire original Stylie only with more detail. It's the only line contact stylus voiced for the 2000e body I know of. https://www.lpgear.com/product/EMS2000E3VL.html
Thanks for the write up. Is the e/III the best?The S in S2000E stands for stylus so it's not a cartridge but a stylus for the 2000E cartridge. On the other hand, numbers like 239-PDE are from a numbering system developed by and for Pfanstiehl Corporation who were a repackager of OEM styli and were and are a seller of aftermarket replacement styli made in Switzerland and Japan. This numbering system has come to be widely used as sort of a lingua franca for discussing styli generally.
As you will see below, there were five distinct 2000 Series cartridges. These differed from one another only in the stylus that came with them. That means that all five styli are compatible with any of the five cartridge bodies. This would hold true for both the original and aftermarket styli.
As for the four vendors you asked about, since the original styli are gone, save for the occasional solitary stylus that appears on eBay, they will all be selling, primarily, aftermarket styli. JICO is the lone exception as they're a manufacturer. In addition to direct sales by JICO, their styli are sold by LP Gear/Tunes and Turntableneedles. The Voice of Music doesn't sell JICO. Instead they sell other brands of aftermarket styli as well as original styli when they're able to source them.
John
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
The styli for the 2000Z and its twins the 2000T and 2000S, (in addition to a dozen or so clones) are still to be found at reasonable prices. It's the cartridge bodies that are rare and which tend to be pretty expensive. The occasional clone will slip through and show up on eBay now and again at an affordable price, assuming the seller is unaware of what he has.
Knowing this, I bought a stylus several years ago and began to stalk the illusive clones on eBay. After a really long time without any luck, I gave up and sold the stylus. I imagine you can guess what happened soon thereafter.
John
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boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Yes but I suspect you'd have a tough time telling the difference between the E/II and E/III, assuming both had aged gracefully. These are all quite old by now.
John
Strangely... not necessarily, as boreas said.
A clone, by the way, is a rebadge, the same thing with a different color, name or cosmetics, but the same underneath. Clones hide their true identities, so prices tend to be lower. Sadly, Empire didn't make many 2000E clones.
If you do a search in this thread, you'll see lots of strategies for getting into the Z club.
As for right now, I need a new S2000e that will outperform a AT-95E. So my options are either buy from Jico or search the web. Is there a certain stylus (other than the vividline) you recommend? I'm selling the at95 with my other turntable and want my new cart to sound better. Thanks!
Right, and we're trying to find a stylus that will do justice to the original 2000E/I,II and/or III-- which in our opinion will outperform the AT95E handily-- without breaking your budget, and that is not going to be easy, I'm afraid. Part of the problem is, demand for this stylus is high and the supply of originals, as boreas said, hovers around zero. This is true of nearly all the best Empires. How the 2000Z line managed to escape this doom up to the present is a mystery.
I see. Well I guess I only have one more question. How good is the 9900e/III / 2000e/iii? What cartridge would it compare to? ( AT, Ortofon Blue, Red, Nagoka or Shure)
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