anyone else running vintage Empire carts?
- Thread starter gadget73
- Start date
easy runnin
New Member
What can you tell me about this cartridge? It's a 3001T with a S917E. I purchased it in 1979 for $30. I also have another stylus I bought a few years later for $17.95. Both styluses have many hours of use. If I recall correctly both suspensions are rather flimsy. I ohmed the cartridge and got 450 and 430. Is it worth it to get a new stylus, and if so what is a reasonable priced option. I also would need a head shell. Again, what is a reasonably priced option? I would be using it on either a Technics SL-D3 or SL-Q2.
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
Any input would be appreciated. Thanks
Attachments
I have nothing on the 50 LT. I have photos of a 70 LT, but nothing on the line. I suspect the 50 LT is somewhere in the middle of that line [update: not really]. If you can give us some good closeups, we might be able to nail it down. Which needle did you buy?Dot Heton said:
Last edited:
It's a clone of the Empire 2000X, which is to say, the same thing, merely named differently. The 2000X used the low-inductance body of the 4000D CD-4 cartridge line, but topped it with that metallic-red S917E elliptical stylus.
This is a painful question to answer. Worth it to get a 4000D stylus, because a NOS genuine S917E will likely cost as much. In other words, no seller I know stocks S917Es (for one thing, they went out of production not too many years after you bought yours), and if they did, they'd be very expensive.
However, Empire made many clones of the 2000X. Some are less well-known than others. The strategy is to search for the whole cartridge + stylus, not just the stylus. If you learn a list of the various Empire models that used the S917E (a few are 50K HZ, 2000 PE, 2000 TE, 2010, 2205 ZH, 2300 Z, 3000 Mk V, 3000 TE/X, 3000 ZE, 4000S, 5000 HPT Improved, 5000 Z-4, 5000 ZE/X, 7000/VII, 9000T Improved, AE 1000 X/V, SE 9900), you might catch a seller unsure of what he has, though this is increasingly unlikely.
Note: Empire is often accused of using exactly the same model name for different cartridges, but as far as I know, this happened twice: the 3000 ZE and the 2000 PE. The LTD 500 appeared as both a standard mount and a p-mount but was otherwise the same. Two and a half times?
Last edited:
ashtraysmoke
New Member
Is that blue LT stylus an original Empire? If so, weird that they would package a lower-compliance stylus with the p-mount. But maybe they were assuming some leeway with the VTF. After all, my Technics SL-7 allows VTF adjustment up to 2 grams or so.
ashtraysmoke
New Member
Hi! As you can see, my avatar pictures a fat Empire 108 cartridge -- on a light, skinny, indeed somewhat flimsy Philips tonearm. That combination didn't work out perfectly, and I've moved on (still need to update the avatar).
However, my experience with the 108 did teach me something: when replacing an Empire 108 stylus, there's a BIG difference between original and replacement styli. If your replacement is not an original Empire, it's likely that the specs are substantially off. I have seen non-original replacements that are both black and white (so the color alone doesn't tell you it's original). My non-original replacement is white, and it has a very different cantilever (and possibly suspension). The original cantilevers are very stiff, short, and steep.
Doug G.
Lunatic Member
Yes, it has become increasingly apparent, through the years, that many, many replacement styli, although they physically fit fine, are not really the performance equivalent of genuine styli, which is unfortunate for those who wish to hear what a particular cartridge really sounds like.
Doug
Doug
Luckyorleans
Super Member
LOL. I use this album as a test record. It is a nice quality pressing with tight bass.
phaser78
Phaser78
Thanks for all the info: i'm going to purchase one of the aftermarket stylus from The Voice of Music site that was mentioned by Wualta...I'm a HUGE fan of the Empire 400TC: I picked one up several years ago...one of the "chunkies"...it came with an original "Red" stylus but unfortunately the upper guide was broken. I've had good luck with aftermarket "yellow" and "blue" stylus in the $15-$20 range...i'll post pics
Dot: If that's the stylus that originally came with the 50 LT (thanks for the photos!), it's basically just another 280 LT, and this is no surprise. Empire gets singled out on certain audio forums for doing this renaming style of marketing, but other big players used the same strategy, selling the same thing over and over with different model names and different cosmetics.
This is a problem 40 years on, when we're picking through the debris in the post-apocalyptic landscape, trying to match up styli and bodies. All p-mounts are promised to track at 1.25g. Therefore, the old way of marketing, where the cheap stuff is the heavy-tracking stuff, doesn't work-- even the cheap stuff has to have pretty much the same moving parts and rubbery bits as the former midline models. Empire had to differentiate the models basically by diamond shape, and, above a certain price level, by cantilever lightness/metallurgy/detailing. In the LTs, this happens between the 480 LT and the 580 LT.
What this means for you is that a blue stylus for the p-mounts (S280LT, maybe S50LT) is actually a better stylus than the blue stylus for the standard-mounts (S200E). The S280LT is virtually a 400 TC stylus, but de-contented/differentiated by having a 4x7 diamond instead of a 2x7. Geek note: This is the only time you'll see a 4x7 in the "Chunkies"-- the S200E has a 3x7, but has 50% more effective tip mass. Marketing!! Genius!! Hails of derisive laughter.
So any vendor who would be so clueless-- not that you can really blame them-- as to sell you an S200E as a direct/exact replacement for an S280LT/S50LT just because they're the same color... Well!
To make this even more confusing, there was an "LTD" line of p-mounts, same "LT" on top of the stylus grip, but with the colors switched around!
This is a problem 40 years on, when we're picking through the debris in the post-apocalyptic landscape, trying to match up styli and bodies. All p-mounts are promised to track at 1.25g. Therefore, the old way of marketing, where the cheap stuff is the heavy-tracking stuff, doesn't work-- even the cheap stuff has to have pretty much the same moving parts and rubbery bits as the former midline models. Empire had to differentiate the models basically by diamond shape, and, above a certain price level, by cantilever lightness/metallurgy/detailing. In the LTs, this happens between the 480 LT and the 580 LT.
What this means for you is that a blue stylus for the p-mounts (S280LT, maybe S50LT) is actually a better stylus than the blue stylus for the standard-mounts (S200E). The S280LT is virtually a 400 TC stylus, but de-contented/differentiated by having a 4x7 diamond instead of a 2x7. Geek note: This is the only time you'll see a 4x7 in the "Chunkies"-- the S200E has a 3x7, but has 50% more effective tip mass. Marketing!! Genius!! Hails of derisive laughter.
So any vendor who would be so clueless-- not that you can really blame them-- as to sell you an S200E as a direct/exact replacement for an S280LT/S50LT just because they're the same color... Well!
To make this even more confusing, there was an "LTD" line of p-mounts, same "LT" on top of the stylus grip, but with the colors switched around!
Last edited:
Luckyorleans
Super Member
Any thoughts on an original Empire .7 mil conical stylus for 66/X inspired blob on clip cartridges with the square cantilevers? I have a cheap generic conical I ordered by accident and it is not very good compared to an EVG elliptical.
Luckyorleans
Super Member
P.S. any thoughts on Tonar replacement styli for Empires?
The easiest answer is to get the EVG 4241-DID (or the 4242-DEX; they're the same) from thevoiceofmusic.com. They're cheap, they're good, they work perfectly in your LT body.
You wouldn't by any chance still have the instruction leaflet for it, would you?
Sounds like you're talking about the red S906 conical, the base stylus for the old 66 series and a zillion 66 clones. Haven't tried to find one myself, but it's possible you'll come across one, since conicals usually get left behind in the rush. You might also be able to find an original black S906E, the base elliptical. boreas has had good luck winkling a few out of the muck recently.
Last edited:
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Delightful stylus, a 0.3 x 0.7 mil that's great for medium or heavyish arms. Theoretically tracks from 0.75 to 3.0g but only comfortable down to about 1.75g. Very punchy with good bass.
John
Similar threads
