anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

[ear4audio]

Ear4audio,
i have to ask; what are you using to take the stylus tip close up images you've posted here? Fantastic stylus close ups!

Hi Rick.
I'm using a standard biology microscope that's meant to view specimens on a slide. I found I can go as high as 250x and still stay in focus. Anything greater will cause damage because the lens has to actually touch the stylus to be in focus. I found a usb camera that replaces the eyepiece on Amazon. Once I get the stylus in focus, I swap out the eyepiece with the usb camera and I take a picture. It takes a while to get the angle and lighting just right so you can see the edges and facets of the stylus but I'm amazed at the different ways the manufacturers used to shape the tip.

 

[rread13]

Thanks for the quick response. I'll wind up getting a scope one of these days. It's on my wish list.

 

[1tumbleweed]

...I'm amazed at the different ways the manufacturers used to shape the tip.

I think the most common theory is that it all began as a way to avoid the Shibata patent. After that, a seemingly endless variety of line contact, microline, paralinear, Fritz Gyger and what all began to appear...likely making little audible difference to the average person. Even the average audiophile.

But great for marketing purposes.

Cheers,
Larry B.

 

[Doug G.]

I believe you are correct re patents, Larry, and ear4audio, regardless of how you are getting those photos, they are excellent.

Doug

 

[bimasta]

After that, a seemingly endless variety of line contact, microline, paralinear, Fritz Gyger and what all began to appear...likely making little audible difference to the average person. Even the average audiophile. But great for marketing purposes.

And great for us. If they're all basically as good, just buy the cheapest variant — probably the one with the least sexy name...

 

[bimasta]

Don't know if this has been posted already (or is allowed) I'm rushing so no time to check.

Many have complained they don't have brackets and can't find them. I ran across this source —

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Empire-Turn...659957?hash=item3ae6863bb5:g:-usAAOSw~FJZNXe3

 

[boreas]

Strictly speaking, it's not allowed. No links to eBay auctions. Apart from that, $25.00 for a cartridge clip shouldn't be allowed either.

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http://www.audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/audiokarma-rules.301366/

John

 

[Dot Heton]

“No crusading”

 

[bimasta]

Strictly speaking, it's not allowed.

Sorry! Best of intentions. So should I delete it, Boreas? Or does a moderator do that? As for the price, may be fine for those who need it.

I see you're in Sonoma. Are you safe?

 

[boreas]

Sorry! Best of intentions. So should I delete it, Boreas? Or does a moderator do that? As for the price, may be fine for those who need it.

I see you're in Sonoma. Are you safe?

Yes, I'm safe, perhaps a little testy.

As for the post, I'd leave the decision to the mods.

John

 

[Luckyorleans]

Empire W70 DE - another blob variation, square shaft that fits the 66E type stylus. Not to much out there info wise. The sound is pretty good, thought the stylus on it is a wee bit bent so will be interested in hearing it with a fresh one.

View attachment 1026400

 

[Stevedel]

Hi, gang. I'm glad that you're still on the job. I pop in at times to see what's new.

You may already know this but there is a 2000T cartridge on E-bay "buy it now" at this moment. The price is, well you decide. It is presented as "New old stock". It's in a walnut case like my 2000Z. I didn't think to check on the included items. My "Z" came with a screwdriver, brush and stylus cleaner fluid. The reason that I don't jump on it is that I have a couple of that series. I just wanted you to know. You guys have taught me a lot.

I can tell you that it's worth every penny. Especially since there are fresh, new Empire branded stylii available from Gary at "The Voice of Music".

Just my opinion.

Upon double checking, I find that it has an included screwdriver and mounting kit. The posting also says that there are five available.

All questions of value and links to auctions or ads belong in the Dollars and Sense forum.
Oops! This posting isn't a link, is it? Tell me that it's not a link. It's really not a link.

 

[wualta]

LuckyO: The W70 DE is likely another 66-series clone (measure to be sure) and if so will take any of their styli, which means any 239-prefix Pfanstiehl-indexed styli-- except the 239-DET! The only orginal (NOS) stylus I know of it the basic conical, the 239-D7C. The one you'd prefer to find is the 239-PDE, as you've heard me say a zillion times, and we're still looking for that special generic that will give performance close to the original's.

At the moment when our need for a good 239-PDE generic is great, it turns out there is an Empire generic that approaches the quality of the original, but it's the $12.99 S2000Z copy currently on eBay. It sounds great, but since it's not that much cheaper than thevoiceofmusic's genuines, and it's a conical, the irony is cruel. The gods mock us. Now, if that maker/seller/distributor could only apply that expertise to a 239-PDE (or a 238-DEQ, or...) !

 

[bimasta]

You may already know this but there is a 2000T cartridge

I have a NOS 2000Z. I love it. I have read that the 2000T is the EXACT same cartridge and equally great. I have also read that the 2000T is NOT related to the Z — it is a LOUSY cartridge — and this very bad review was posted as a WARNING: DON'T BE FOOLED, DO NOT BUY!

Dramatic contradiction!

Does anyone have direct knowledge? Hearsay is all I have, and more hearsay won't help. Only someone with direct experience of both — ideally someone WHO OWNS BOTH — can clear this up.

I would like to buy another Z — but I don't want "to be FOOLED".

Forgive the all-caps. I'm just seeking guidance from someone who knows Empire much better than I — all I know ismy 2000Z and 2000E/III are wonderful, but I also know Empire did not always meet that standard.

 

[ear4audio]

Does anyone have direct knowledge? Hearsay is all I have, and more hearsay won't help. Only someone with direct experience of both — ideally someone WHO OWNS BOTH — can clear this up.

Direct from the Empire Product Brochure.

Slight difference in some specs, otherwise they are very similar.

 

[By-Tor]

Those are some fantastic pics ear4audio, They make me realize how invaluable a microscope would be.

Thanks for the review on the 280LT needlestein. I'm glad i grabbed one. Mine came as well, but i'm still waiting for my new p-mount table to test it, should be here tomorrow. I'm thinking about picking up a 4241-did for it as well, but i'm wondering if it fits the t4p specification, anyone know?
Oh, and guess what, the lpgear eBay page has just happened to acquire some nos 280LT cartridges. Hmmm i wonder where they could have gotten those? Only $77 now!

 

[boreas]

Direct from the Empire Product Brochure.

Slight difference in some specs, otherwise they are very similar.

Shall we start narrowing things down a bit to try to determine where the two differ? I decided to measure the coils on my T before I throw it out. If someone can measure their Z we can determine whether the two cartridge share the same set of specs. Here's what I got.

Inductance: L-750mH, R-780mH
Resistance: L-1238 ohms, R-1241 ohms

I suppose we have to acknowledge that there is some difference but the ones we see in the specs above tend to indicate tighter tolerances: channel balance within 3/4dB versus 1dB, frequency response covering the same range but +/- 1dB versus 1-1/2dB and channel separation within 3dB of each other. Nothing earth-shattering and certainly not enough difference to make one legendary and the other one lousy...... Audiophiles

I think Joseph has probably hit on the difference, the same sort of difference that exists between a Grado Gold and a Grado Silver or a Stanton 681EEE "Calibration Standard" cartridge and a Stanton 680EE cartridge (except in this example they were shipped with different styli), in other words, hand selected examples with the tightest tolerances.

John

 

[boreas]

I have a NOS 2000Z. I love it. I have read that the 2000T is the EXACT same cartridge and equally great. I have also read that the 2000T is NOT related to the Z — it is a LOUSY cartridge — and this very bad review was posted as a WARNING: DON'T BE FOOLED, DO NOT BUY!

Dramatic contradiction!

Does anyone have direct knowledge? Hearsay is all I have, and more hearsay won't help. Only someone with direct experience of both — ideally someone WHO OWNS BOTH — can clear this up.

I would like to buy another Z — but I don't want "to be FOOLED".

Forgive the all-caps. I'm just seeking guidance from someone who knows Empire much better than I — all I know ismy 2000Z and 2000E/III are wonderful, but I also know Empire did not always meet that standard.

Was this an actual review published in an actual magazine or was it a post on Reddit?

John

 

[rread13]

Regarding the Empire 2000Z; I admit I regularly troll Ebay and look for "Deals". A seller last week had listed a NOS 2000Z with box and NO STYLUS for $99.99 BIN and I let it go. Well another one came up today/tonight and I jumped on it! I couldn't resist the temptation and hit the BUY button and paid for it. Oooh the anticipation!!! I have (6) 239-DET stylus from VoTM and one NOS 237-DEZ plenty of the good stuff!

 

[bimasta]

Was this an actual review published in an actual magazine or was it a post on Reddit?

As I recall, the very negative comments on the 2000T (framed as a warning) were posted here on AK. Positive comments re the 2000Z were my own. I didn't know Reddit has cartridge reviews, because I never look at Reddit. As you know, I didn't endorse the comments, simply sought information.