anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

Thanks ear4audio, that is a bit of nostalgia. I never saw a 1000ZE/X but I sold and owned the others. I still have a TE/X. I remember those so well.
 
boreas - is there a reason your not using the S1000ZE/X stylus in that?

Availability and the price when one turns up. Plus the S1000ZE/X-ERD and the S999VE/X-ERD are quite similar, the only difference being the VTF range from which it's possible to infer that the S1000ZE/X-ERD is higher compliance than the S999VE/X-ERD and best suited to ultralight arms (which I don't have). The ZE/X and VE/X use the same body so either stylus works as intended in either body.

John
 
Here are some basic test results for the 999VE/X from Popular Electronics back in 1971:
Empire 999VE-X graph, PE, Jun 1971 p26 .JPG
 
Last edited:
Yer welcome. That's from an article by J. Gordon Holt, "15 Things We Do Know About Phono Cartridges" and it's in the June issue, p.25.
 
Cool! Looks like a good issue.

http://www.americanradiohistory.com/Archive-Poptronics/70s/1971/Poptronics-1971-06.pdf

PE_Jun_1971_CoverA.jpg
 
Last edited:
Now, if anyone has the March 1971 issue of High Fidelity or the March 1972 issue of Stereo Review and can scan and post the graphs for the 1000ZE/X, it'd be much appreciated.
UPDATE: now, thankfully, available online: Mar 71 HF Mar 72 SR
Meanwhile, in England, Stanley Kelly rolled up his shirtsleeves and got down to it:
Gramophone test Capture.JPG
 
Last edited:
That looks like the 4237-DEZ I have. When I first heard it misbehave, you could have heard me yell "Bad stylus! Naughty stylus!" because it really was pretty incompetent. Others who bought it seem to agree. Its signature move was to get right down to within a mm of the record surface, not because the suspension was collapsed but because it was actually made that way. I hope yours is different, but if it isn't, you already have the Astatic NMR, with the 239-DET on the way. Which color did you get?

Finally got around to comparing the styli for the 2000Z this morning. The 239-DET from VoM is the translucent yellow version. Also found a new S2000Z to add to the comparison.
DSCN0748.JPG
The good: I have two winners as both the Astatic NMR and the S2000Z sound very good. I would be hard pressed to say one is better but have only compared them with one record (Steely Dan, Aja).
The bad: well, you called it Walt. That 4237-DEZ (or whatever it is) was bad...really bad! Although it played loud, the sound was mushy (don't know how else to describe it). And a low-rider...WOW, so low that it was rubbing the record at times. It came off quickly! The biggest disappointment was the 239-DET. Not that it sounded bad but when I went to remove it from the cartridge the body (translucent yellow part) came off. I was left with the needle and the end of the cantilever still in the cartridge. I managed to remove the needle/cantilever with needle-nose pliers but, of course, the stylus is trashed. The other styli were a bit tight but came out with no problem. Have you all seen this before? Any way to lubricate a stylus/cartridge if a stylus seems too tight?
Thanks, Rob
 
Wow! No, I've never seen that happen with one of the genuine-original styli, and I have a couple of the yellow ones from VoM. I have broken off a very tightly-fitting non-Empire stylus's grip, so I know what that's like, but was yours tight going in? If the fit wasn't tight, meaning the grip was defective, get with Gary at VoM.
 
Last edited:
It was snug, a bit tighter than normal, but slid in without undo effort. Both the Astatic and the original S2000Z are also snug fitting but have been removed several times without damage. The 4237-DEZ that was on the cartridge when I bought it does slide in and out easier than all the others...of course...no chance of damaging the crappy one! I will ask Gary about it but really don't want the same thing to happen to either the Astatic or the S2000Z. I thought of using a little (very little on a cotton swab) synthetic sewing machine oil (Liberty brand) or SuperLube synthetic oil (ISO 100-150) but worried about the cartridge internals. Neither of these oils have any petroleum products and leaning towards the SuperLube because I know it's dielectric...open to other suggestions...thanks.

Rob
 
...I will ask Gary about it but really don't want the same thing to happen to either the Astatic or the S2000Z. I thought of using a little (very little on a cotton swab) synthetic sewing machine oil (Liberty brand) or SuperLube synthetic oil...
While I think your yellow S915E was a victim of manufacturing tolerances and the disaster would not be repeated, if all styli were found to be a more-than-snug fit, I'd be inclined to go with lube of very high viscosity-- the 600,000 cSt silicone oil I've been working with to damp Stanton brushes, for example. Slow insertion and removal would be possible, but in normal use any stylus would tend to stay put, and there'd be no worry of over-lubing. But since only one of three attempts has shown excessive tightness, I'm thinking that a replacement S915E would almost certainly fit normally.
Did you by any chance happen to photograph the pieces of the wrecked S915E? The fact that it slid in without undue effort tells me the thing was defective. It should have slid out equally easily.
 
Last edited:
So I've got hold of a NOS Empire 2000Z cartridge and stylus in it's original timber box.

Can you experts tell me if this will suit my Sansui XR-Q7 turntable? It has a straight tone arm and fixed headshell.

Anything specific I need to do?

What can I expect to hear that is different from my Nagaoka MP-110 cart?

I do enjoy rock and metal music.

Cheers ☺
 
Rmass, sorry to see you are up at 2:20 EST, I'm in Knoxville.

As soon as I read how tight your styli were I started to think of lubricants, then you asked for one. You realize that any excess lubrication might harm the generator. I would use some Teflon lube. I have some that I think I got from Radio Shack. It is like a paste in a tube. I would put on a tiny amount, rub it all around the shaft then wipe it off. There will be a trace amount left and it will do some lubricating.
 
While I think your yellow S915E was a victim of manufacturing tolerances and the disaster would not be repeated, if all styli were found to be a more-than-snug fit, I'd be inclined to go with lube of very high viscosity-- the 600,000 cSt silicone oil I've been working with to damp Stanton brushes, for example. Slow insertion and removal would be possible, but in normal use any stylus would tend to stay put, and there'd be no worry of over-lubing. But since only one of three attempts has shown excessive tightness, I'm thinking that a replacement S915E would almost certainly fit normally.
Did you by any chance happen to photograph the pieces of the wrecked S915E? The fact that it slid in without undue effort tells me the thing was defective. It should have slid out equally easily.

Here are a couple photos of the end of the shaft (the end that sits farthest into cartridge). It looks similar to the other styli that I've used with the exception of a small indentation perpendicular to the shaft length on one of the 4 sides. First pic shows what 3 sides look like, 2nd pic shows the 4th side with the dent. I don't see anything like this dent on the 3 other styli that have been in this cartridge. After the grip came off I did my best to remove the shaft as gently as possible, pulling straight out, so I don't think I did this while removing the shaft although that is a possibility.
DSCN0763.JPG DSCN0761.JPG
Didn't take pics of the other end because it's ugly from where I grabbed it with the pliers and the cantilever/needle was lost in the tussle.
Is it possible to push a stylus too far into an Empire cartridge? Should the stylus grip be up against the cartridge or should there be a bit of space? This seems to vary...I don't want to push too hard but I want it seated properly. There is usually a bit of space with the 2000Z. For the 2000E/III and 8000XVE, no space...grip is right up against the cartridge.
Thanks.
Rob
 
After reading the thread on the 2000Z and a few styli that have been auditioned I too had the same thing happen with my 915E stylus (the yellow one). It slid in snugly on my 2008 body sounded tremendous, and then when I went to remove it the yellow nose separated from the shank. Removing the shank with small needle nose pliers destroyed the shank and needle. I stocked up on silver/chrome ones, found one gold original and one blue one.

I used 1000 grit or finer still wet/dry sand paper and very carefully polished up the sides of the shanks and have had zero insertion and removal with any of the ones that felt too snug. From memory I am thinking I only needed to do this to my blue one as a precaution to be on the safe side.
 
Here are a couple photos of the end of the shaft (the end that sits farthest into cartridge). It looks similar to the other styli that I've used with the exception of a small indentation perpendicular to the shaft length on one of the 4 sides. First pic shows what 3 sides look like, 2nd pic shows the 4th side with the dent. I don't see anything like this dent on the 3 other styli that have been in this cartridge. After the grip came off I did my best to remove the shaft as gently as possible, pulling straight out, so I don't think I did this while removing the shaft although that is a possibility.
View attachment 1073718 View attachment 1073720
Didn't take pics of the other end because it's ugly from where I grabbed it with the pliers and the cantilever/needle was lost in the tussle.
Is it possible to push a stylus too far into an Empire cartridge? Should the stylus grip be up against the cartridge or should there be a bit of space? This seems to vary...I don't want to push too hard but I want it seated properly. There is usually a bit of space with the 2000Z. For the 2000E/III and 8000XVE, no space...grip is right up against the cartridge.
Thanks.
Rob

I'd be interested in seeing photos of the plastic grip, in particular the hole into which the brass tube fits.

You have both my sympathy and empathy. I just snapped the cantilever on my S999VE/X-ERD. Never work on styli before coffee!

John
 
...Can you experts tell me if this [2000Z] will suit my Sansui XR-Q7 turntable? ... What can I expect to hear that is different from my Nagaoka MP-110 cart?
The Sansui's arm looks lightweight, so it ought to be okay, but the way to really know is to mount the cartridge and see at what frequency the arm/cartridge resonates by using a test record with infrasonic tracks (eg, the Shure Era IV and V "obstacle course" discs). Even if it's not in the ideal range (10 to 15 Hz), you can still enjoy its sound, which should provide greater refinement, especially in the treble, than the Nagaoka 110.

... I don't see anything like this dent on the 3 other styli that have been in this cartridge.
This might be a clue, or it might not. I do like rread13's idea of polishing the shaft with some fine emery paper, especially if some dent or bulge is visible.

Is it possible to push a stylus too far into an Empire cartridge? Should the stylus grip be up against the cartridge or should there be a bit of space? ...
Push it in as far as it will go. The grip may contact the body shell along a line or at a couple of points instead of perfectly flush, but no, if the grip is present, you can't push it in too far.

I too had the same thing happen with my 915E stylus (the yellow one). ... when I went to remove it the yellow nose separated from the shank. Removing the shank with small needle nose pliers destroyed the shank and needle...
Looks like there was a QC problem! Did yours have a dent or bulge? Okay, I revoke my recommendation of the yellow S915E until further notice. Good idea to have some fine abrasive handy to polish off any irregularities.

UPDATE: FWIW, just tried both my yellow S915Es in the EXL 30 body. Pushed 'em in and pulled 'em out a few times and so far no problem.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom