anyone else running vintage Empire carts?
- Thread starter gadget73
- Start date
boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Grainger49
Old Fart
I found out what a good guy he was a few years back when I ordered the wrong stylus. I sent an email and he got it straightened out within 10 minutes. I'm impressed ! !
heavyrock
Iron Head
All the discussion about the 2000z in this thread inspired me to buy the styli-less one in bartertown yesterday and order the jico 2000ze. Looking forward to trying my first Empire cart out in a few weeks. No idea of course how well it would compare against original styus but for the money it seems like I should be impressed by the sound, which is all that matters.
Stevedel
Active Member
Merry Christmas, you guys.
You just make me say it again: "Listening to a good Empire cartridge is like setting in the 3rd light slot above a full symphony orchestra."
1000ZE/X, 999VE/X or 2000Z, I still don't know which I like better. I don't care, I'll just enjoy them all.
I hope you all have a Happy New Year, filled with Empire's finest.
Steve
You just make me say it again: "Listening to a good Empire cartridge is like setting in the 3rd light slot above a full symphony orchestra."
1000ZE/X, 999VE/X or 2000Z, I still don't know which I like better. I don't care, I'll just enjoy them all.
I hope you all have a Happy New Year, filled with Empire's finest.
Steve
Homer4beer
Well-Known Member
So where does one obtain these discs? Are they freely available or rare as hens teeth?
How do you measure the resonance?
Cheers
heavyrock
Iron Head
So where does one obtain these discs? Are they freely available or rare as hens teeth?
How do you measure the resonance?
Cheers
I found one on ebay and another for a couple of $$ in local,used record shop. Go to your shops and ask if they have any test records, they might be filed in an out of the way place. The cover basically prints instructions inside the gatefold or onthe back and the resonance tests are audible when you play that test band. Very worthy tool to have in your tool Kit.
They're officially known as the Shure TTR-115 and TTR-117. Where an interested person would get them in AU I don't know, but any good used record shop should have one or be able to get hold of one. Otherwise, online auctions, tag/garage/yard/estate sales, the black market, things like that.
It's fun to watch a cartridge/arm try to play a high-energy infrasonic track. The cartridge (and arm) starts shaking visibly at the resonant frequency. Unless you've fluid-damped your arm, you can't miss it.
It's fun to watch a cartridge/arm try to play a high-energy infrasonic track. The cartridge (and arm) starts shaking visibly at the resonant frequency. Unless you've fluid-damped your arm, you can't miss it.
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Rmass
Member
Or after too many cups of coffee...maybe that was my problem. Here are a few shots of the grip:
Thanks to all for the help and suggestions. I went from the excitement of listening to a brand new stylus (and it sounded very good!) to the stylus falling apart in my hands...the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat!!
Rob
Wow, looks like the brass tube made a clean break! I expected wreckage, fragments, disintegration, craquelure.
In my case, I had to really jam the stylus in question in, so I knew what might happen. When it did, I gingerly pushed the tube the rest of the way in and left it that way. Now it looks like one o' them fancy-butt moving-coil jobs, you betcha.
In my case, I had to really jam the stylus in question in, so I knew what might happen. When it did, I gingerly pushed the tube the rest of the way in and left it that way. Now it looks like one o' them fancy-butt moving-coil jobs, you betcha.
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boreas
"If it sounds good, it IS good." E.K.E.
Me too. It's a shame the business end of the tube was damaged. It might have offered some clues.
John
Homer4beer
Well-Known Member
Yep I think getting them in Aus will be quite a challenge unless imported from O/S through Ebay.
Stevedel
Active Member
I have a Shure V15-IV test record. I've used a TP16 Thorens arm for years and never felt the need to second guess it's tracking. I know that it's not "high compliance". I think that you may find more than a few Empire turntable lovers that feel the same. Not to mention early SME owners. "It's all in the bearings."
Ya think,Walt, that we might be looking for a solution in search of a problem? Just a wild speculation.
On the other hand, those guys with the $12,000 tone arms need some justification.
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Rmass
Member
In retrospect, I should have taken a photo of what was left after the grip came off. Everything I could see (needle, cantilever, shaft) looked completely normal, but with the grip gone. I also wish I had tried playing it without the grip as I suspect it would have played just fine. But I panicked and tried to remove the remnants. Using pliers to grip the small nub of shaft that was sticking out of the cartridge crushed the shaft, and then the cantilever/needle the fell off. Game over.
So yes, it was a very clean removal of the grip, at least until I took pliers to it. I possibly could have had a quite functional and good sounding, but very odd looking, gripless stylus/cartridge combo.
Craquelure...wow...had to look that one up. Learnin' more than vinyl stuff here!
Rob
Steve: I know you were being facetious, but you're right-- the super-low-friction of the big-bucks arms, assuming they're not already damped, will actually make a compliance-mass mismatch worse, so yes, those owners really do need the infrasonic tracks. As for the rest of us, we usually don't run into trouble until we put a heavy cartridge that tracks at 1.0g on an arm with too much effective mass. So you could say it's a lurking problem just waiting for our next upgrade. Bwa ha.
Homer4beer
Well-Known Member
Sorry to ask this again but how will the 2000Z cartridge handle rock and metal?
Grainger49
Old Fart
Stevedal, I had a TP-16 arm on a TD-160. I used an ADC XLM, very high compliance, for 15 years. I had damped the arm with a home-made STP bath. It improved the solidity of the images and depth of soundstage. So my experience is that the arm is high compliance enough to be improved with the damping.
If you are interested, I can send instructions for construction in a PM.
If you are interested, I can send instructions for construction in a PM.
Rmass
Member
Hey Granger, how did you know that the tonearm would benefit from damping? Test record? Trial and error?
I need to pick up one of those test records. I see several copies of the Shure TTR-115 on discogs for <$10 shipped; the TTR-117 is going for a good bit more (most >$20). Any advantage in having the newer (117) version?
Rob
Stevedel
Active Member
Years ago, My best sound came from a 999VE in a 1019 Dual. I traded to a Thorens TD150 and then a TD160C with TP16 arm. I have never forgotten the wonderful clear transparency of that cartridge. After I lost my last 999VE/ERD replacement stylus I tried to drown my sorrows in several hi end cartridges. 681EEE, Ortofon SL15E, and others that I cannot remember. I finally settled on a V-15 Type IV. Used that for many years until I ran across you guys.
Walt and crew convinced me that there was more Empire to be had. With the help of E-bay and Gary @ VOM.com I've procured a lifetime supply of high end Empire bodies and styli. Mostly 1000ZE/X, 999VE/X, 999TE/X, 2000Z and ERD30 with yellow, blue and silver, T styli. They are used in Technics SL1500 and SL1300, the aforementioned TD160C, Pioneer PL117 and a hybrid PL12 in a PL45A plinth and cover with Jelco tone-arm. The Jelco has a fluid damping feature but I've never had the desire to use it. I've also little desire to continue acquiring turntables. Well, maybe a Micro-Seiki or a TD125. Or maybe I can find a 598 Empire golden wonder in pristine condition.
Before re-acquainting myself with Empire, I was thinking of drifting toward the moving coil "darkside". Now, not so much. I am no longer trying to over-think this.
That's more info than you want but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
P.S. How ya doin', Grainger? Best regards, John. Keep the Empire world exciting, Walt. Say hi to Doug, if you see him. And thanks.
Walt and crew convinced me that there was more Empire to be had. With the help of E-bay and Gary @ VOM.com I've procured a lifetime supply of high end Empire bodies and styli. Mostly 1000ZE/X, 999VE/X, 999TE/X, 2000Z and ERD30 with yellow, blue and silver, T styli. They are used in Technics SL1500 and SL1300, the aforementioned TD160C, Pioneer PL117 and a hybrid PL12 in a PL45A plinth and cover with Jelco tone-arm. The Jelco has a fluid damping feature but I've never had the desire to use it. I've also little desire to continue acquiring turntables. Well, maybe a Micro-Seiki or a TD125. Or maybe I can find a 598 Empire golden wonder in pristine condition.
Before re-acquainting myself with Empire, I was thinking of drifting toward the moving coil "darkside". Now, not so much. I am no longer trying to over-think this.
That's more info than you want but that's my story and I'm sticking to it.
P.S. How ya doin', Grainger? Best regards, John. Keep the Empire world exciting, Walt. Say hi to Doug, if you see him. And thanks.
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