anyone else running vintage Empire carts?

...Is Shibata a lot different from hypereliptical in terms of sound?
I would say no, although I don't have two identical styli for the same cartridge where one has an HE and the other the SH. I do have many Shibatas and many HEs and they all make nice noises.

Having said that, Shure said that the greater front-to-back symmetry of the hyperelliptical cut gave measurably lower distortion when they compared the HE to the simpler, very Shibata-looking cut on the diamond on their M24H (which I also have).

In the real world of Bliss Shibata vs Bliss HE, there may be other differences. For example, the particular Shibata in the Bliss might have a taller contact patch (bigger contact radius) than the HE counterpart. Distortion differences aside, this wouldn't affect the sound, but would affect wear. The tradeoff would be greater sensitivity to vertical tracking angle (VTA), and without further audiophile bla bla bla, you can probably see that for the extra money, you might not be getting any immediately-obvious audible benefit.

Then too, the two diamonds might have different scanning radii, which would affect detail retrieval.

Suggestion: Email/phone TTN and ask for the two important dimensions of the two diamonds: scanning radius and contact radius. The smaller the scanning radius, the higher the frequency the diamond can trace. The bigger the contact radius, the less the wear and the greater the sensitivity to vertical tracking angle.
 
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Hyper elliptical is similar to the AT Line Contact stylus, a step below the Shibata.

Not a great deal of sonic difference. :)
Audio-Technica_Nadelschliffe(6).gif
 
Thanks for your advice, everyone. I went ahead and ordered the Bliss Shibata, on the theory that it would sound better than my Ortofon Red, which is elliptical. We shall see. Any videos or tips you can recommend for installing the new stylus, and what the tracking force of the Empire 8000 with this stylus should be? I got this Riverstone tracking force gauge so I can dial it in. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B076DFZDS4/ref=od_aui_detailpages00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Also, what are your opinions about the Technics SL-1200 vs more automated Technics models such as the SL-1800?
 
Also, what are your opinions about the Technics SL-1200 vs more automated Technics models such as the SL-1800?

The Technics SL-1800 MKI or MKII are not automated either - completely manual.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-1800.shtml

The Technics SL-1700 MKI and MKII are semi - auto.
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-1700.shtml

The Technics SL-1600 MKI and MKII are the fully automatic in this series. :D
https://www.vinylengine.com/library/technics/sl-1600.shtml
 
Tracking force is strictly a function of the stylus, so for Bliss styli, ask TTN.com.
 
The last couple of days have been a wreck. But the dog wanted to go out at 4:00 this morning and I knew I wouldn't go back to sleep.

I am having a problem... I start to scan a post and end up reading and trying to digest them. I started an Excel spread sheet but have not found any measurements yet.

Should I list page#/Post# when I do find measurements so others can find them easily?
 
Thanks for all the info. Technics semi and full autos, are these all the same in terms of build quality and sound?

The Riverstone gauge got all good reviews on Amazon. It cost a bit more, but what the heck. This is probably the only one I'll ever need. On tracking force, with a range of 0.75 to 1.5 grams, is it best to dial in 1.5, the midpoint of 1.25, or go as light as possible at 0.75 to save wear?
 
Should I list page#/Post# when I do find measurements so others can find them easily?

Grainger, I didn't take that into consideration when posting the Omhs/mH list , But, it would point folks to some excellence information about the cart and styli of their interest. So I say; "Carry On Young Man" , make it your creation, and we'll make it ours. ( with the careful and watchful eyes of our in-house Empire Gurus) .....lol

http://audiokarma.org/forums/index....ance-resistance-for-2000-style-bodies.827938/
 
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Thanks for all the info. Technics semi and full autos, are these all the same in terms of build quality and sound?

The Riverstone gauge got all good reviews on Amazon. It cost a bit more, but what the heck. This is probably the only one I'll ever need. On tracking force, with a range of 0.75 to 1.5 grams, is it best to dial in 1.5, the midpoint of 1.25, or go as light as possible at 0.75 to save wear?
It's always a good idea to go towards the high range (if not specified maximum) of any recommended VTF. Especially with an aftermarket non-OEM stylus. Wear to stylus and discs from a quarter to half a gram difference is negligible at best.
 
Recently I aquired a higher loft blob clip. Mid loft? Note it has a pimple instead of a hole. I also noticed on one of the black clips the rear end touches table top and all others very close in height from surface. IMG_20180628_111603720.jpg IMG_20180628_111622111.jpg
 
RE: VTF. Have also recently aquired digital VTF gauge. I will no longer trust readings from tone arm. Especially on spring based units like Dual and BIC.
 
Here's my updated numbers.
Thanks for the measurements! I'm very puzzled/surprised by the inductance readings on those two 2000 bodies. The 2000E/III is one of those with 66-clone resistance, but this one has inductance 100mH below "normal" (or what my own measurements have led me to believe is normal), something that's only been reported once before and which I assumed was a typo. At that inductance, it jumps over into 4000D territory. As the numbers come in from owners, we'll have to see how common this is.
The 2000 body in the photo has the correct resistance for a 2000E family body, but the inductance is less than half what it should be, again down with the 4000Ds. If these measurements are accurate, we're up against inconsistency big enough and common enough to throw off our ability to reliably identify a body by resistance alone.

The QX2005 and 1000SE/X show more-typical 2000E family measurements.
 
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RE: VTF. Have also recently aquired digital VTF gauge. I will no longer trust readings from tone arm. Especially on spring based units like Dual and BIC.

If you want a surprise, set the VTF with the balance method and then verify it with the scale. the degree of accuracy with the balance method is surpricingly acurate, depending largely on how level the arm is before you dial in the VTF. The principle virtue of a scale is that it's infinitely simpler and quicker.
 
...On tracking force, with a range of 0.75 to 1.5 grams, is it best to dial in 1.5, the midpoint of 1.25, or go as light as possible at 0.75 to save wear?
Rule of thumb: err on the side of heavier rather than lighter. Very few styli (and arms!) can track reliably without mistracking ("sibilance") at a gram, much less 0.75 gram. Avoid mistracking, which can greatly accelerate wear, not to mention that it sounds teeth-grittingly awful and destroys any illusion of listening to music rather than equipment.
 
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