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Anyone using the OPA827 on the Maverick DAC1 Plus?

Discussion in 'DACs' started by jberenyi, Apr 30, 2018.

  1. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
    Currently using the OPA627 in my DAC1 Plus with favorable results. Just curious if going to the OPA827 will yield more sonic quality. Please chime in :)

    PS. Not interested in hearing from those with fake 827's
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018

     

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  2. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
    Guess I'll be the first one...yippee. Ordered it today and no its not from China. Certified Texas Instrument chips on real BurrBrown adapters. No garbage here. Will report how they sound when installed.
     
  3. gvl

    gvl Super Member

    Messages:
    1,012
    I suspect if you can tap closer to the beginning of the supply chain you can get real deal for much less than Mouser prices which I'm sure include a hefty markup just by themselves.
     
    invaderzim likes this.
  4. kray

    kray HE>i Subscriber

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    What proof do you have the Maverick 627's are fake besides guessing the pricing?
     
  5. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
    I questioned them. Never said they were fake. Buyer beware is all. I base my cautionary standpoint on pricing rational and severe lack of communication by the vendor to provide proof.
     
  6. invaderzim

    invaderzim AK Subscriber Subscriber

    Messages:
    585
    Location:
    California
    I can't imagine any manufacture would provide an invoice copy of where they get their components as requested.

    For one it would be a great way for competitors to find better sources.
     
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  7. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
    Where I work we do...its called Certs.
     
  8. kray

    kray HE>i Subscriber

    Messages:
    646
    Location:
    Denver
    What do certifications have to do with telling your competition where you source your products. why would I tell you where I get my supply, and for how much?
     
  9. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    Call it an educated guess - Maverick offers the OPA627 option for $15 each - that's TWO chips mounted on a plug in SO8/DIP8 adapter. Actual BurrBrowns mounted up on OEM Browndogs sell for $60 each. I'd think any bulk discount that would explain that difference would be spectacular indeed. So, are we talking re-labelled AD744's? Da shadow know ...

    Not that I have any complaints about what they provide - still a quantum leap over the original op amps in my Plus - but it'd be interesting to plug in the "real deal" and see what happens.

    Oh - the OPA 827 is sort of the country cousin of the OPA 627. Can't imagine it being an improvement over an actual OPA 627. The specs look similar, and I wouldn't be surprised to find out they both come from the same die and the more expensive version just tests better. Same holds true with a lot of electronics.

    ***
    Ah, crap ... this thread just cost me $60 ... <G>

    Ordered one OPA627 populated browndog from Cimarron - I just use the dac side so that's all I need. Let ya know if there's any difference.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2018
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  10. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
    Pray tell you tell me how to prove if you have fakes or not. It's about time we get some healthy discussion on this topic :)
     
  11. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
    Please do report back. I just ordered the OPA827's from the same place and everything I've read says they sound a tad better than the 627's. Too each his own I guess.
     

     

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  12. kray

    kray HE>i Subscriber

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  13. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    Common opinion seems to be that the 827 is a bit brighter than the 627, so I guess a lot would depend on how it matches up to your system and tastes.
     
  14. jberenyi

    jberenyi Member

    Messages:
    61
    Location:
    West Haven, Utah
  15. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    I'd say in this case, proof is in the cost, but ... counterfeits aren't necessarily a bad thing - other than for the OEM pipeline. I got a bunch of "bourns" multi turn pots some time back that were a fraction of the cost of the real deal, just fer shitzengiggles.

    [​IMG]

    They all tested out right on the money, with smooth linear motion and tracking top to bottom ...
     
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  16. bimasta

    bimasta Super Member

    Messages:
    2,647
    Similar story here, Skizo. I got some "Alps" resistor-ladder attenuators; they're counterfeit, but they test perfectly. Their action is too stiff, but a little WD40 improved it. I haven't used them yet, but all the resistors match with even less than the 1% error spec, so they should work fine. Replacing the resistors with Vishays or other top-grade resistors might improve the sound a bit, but how much?

    Fakes can be great, if done well. Look at the Art world — from fake Rembrandts to fake Warhols, all the experts scratch their heads, debate fiercely, use the most expensive technology to analyze the molecular structure of the pigments and the fibers of the canvas — and sometimes still can't tell the difference.

    It matters when a painting is worth $100,000,000 — but for my use, to make my music softer or louder, I'm happy with a good fake for one-fiftieth the cost.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
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  17. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    In any case, I'm hoping to have less problems with the (real?) OPA627's that are coming than I did with the highly touted Burson v4's that I tried. BOTH fried shortly after installation. One developed a leak that I fortunately head off at the pass before it ate the circuit board, and the other failed with some horrendous pops and clicks through the speakers that just about gave me a heart attack. Originally thought I'd red plated a tube on the amp, but then remembered it hadn't been long that I swapped the remaining Burson back in from the headphone side of the Mav to give it another try. My bad I guess. Replaced that with one of the original Mav OPA627's and all is well once again.

    And yes, the Burson's DID sound better than they were working, but I wonder how much of that is due to the quality of the IC's they were replacing. I'll know soon enough.

    PS - couldn't stop myself - just got off the line with Cimarron, headed them off before shipping, and they'll be sending me one OPA627 browndog AND one OPA827 browndog. Should be a fun experiment ...
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2018
  18. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier

    Messages:
    4,860
    Location:
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    Have you had other Burson products that failed, or was this an isolated incident? I've considered maybe trying one or two, but maybe I should cross them off the list...?
     
  19. sKiZo

    sKiZo Hates received: 8642 Subscriber

    That was TWO Bursons that failed, both probably out of the same batch as they were purchased together. The Maverick can use two, but I found out later that one is dedicated to the standard outputs, and one is used just for the built in headphone amp.

    Burson got bonus points for offering to replace the first one that failed, but I never got around to sending it back. As far as I was concerned, the damage was done. I eventually loaded the second one in the same location and planned to keep an eye on that for similar corrosion issues, but that's the one that was sending the killer pOps to the amps. It looked good externally when I pulled it, and I haven't had a chance to peek inside. Rumor has it I wouldn't be able to see much anyway as they're epoxy filled. Fortunately, no insurmountable damage to the system with either, but the potential was certainly there.

    Here's a couple pics of the first failure ...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    I'd think a lot of it was heat related as the socket is really close to the tube. Not an issue with the browndog OPA's as they're much shorter and don't get anywhere near the glass. The "corrosion" may have been the epoxy melting and leaking? It didn't get on the board, and the socket cleaned up decent anyway.

    One other interesting (mutter mutter) moment came when swapping back to the browndogs - the pins on the Burson were bigger and had spread the socket holes to where the browndogs were really loose. I ended up bending the legs on one for a tighter fit, and that got me up and going again.

    [​IMG]

    Socket is now replaced, and the OPA's are in place ...

    [​IMG]

    it's safe to say I'm done screwing with high end analog op amps. Your results may vary depending on your DAC, but I wouldn't recommend them for the Mavs due to the tube's proximity. If you DO decide to try em, I'd also add a 90 degree socket extender to get some distance between the tube and op amp ...
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2018
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  20. Wildcat

    Wildcat Audio Sommelier

    Messages:
    4,860
    Location:
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    I have a feeling that was it--whatever the Bursons were potted with had leaked out. I was only wondering if the Burson op amps were generally unreliable, but now I see how close it is to the tube. I don't really have a use for upgraded op amps in anything as of yet, but I've still kept them bookmarked for future use. :thumbsup:
     

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