Apple AirPort Express vs Everything else.

If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that music streamed wirelessly through an airport express is better than hard wired through a moderately priced dac?

Have I got that right?

That is not what I have found but am happy to explore more listening.

Nope. I said i cant tell any difference. a) there is no difference between the 256aac Apple iTunes version and the HDtracks version 96/24 (Mastered from the ooriginal tapes at this res) and b) there is no difference between using a nice quality cable to play back these files from my MBP in native res vs streaming them (which downscales them) to the AE. The MBP can playback 96/24 but AE will only stream 44/16.

I am usual analogue out of AE and MBP. I dont have access to any other DAC to test (other than older Mac, or windows machines)

Admitedly my system is modest and maybe it isnt capable of showing me the difference...maybe it only matters when you get to xxx$$$ systems? for me. I cant find a difference until i find a poorly encoded, low bitrate (you can hear 128 is different)
 
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I've used different models over the years but these are the newest model, I believe.
With the newer Apple OS you don't need Rogue Amoeba any more - its baked into the OS now!
Click on the speaker symbol on your dock and just pick where you want your mac to send it to ...
LineOut, or to one of your Airport Express devices!
I sent the audio from the Lockn streaming show the other day down to my Jolida tube system and listened from there - very nice!
Airfoil still has major benefits over just changing the audio output on the Mac. It works with multiple AirPlay devices, can be setup in zones, has an app that can change the Mac's outputs from iOS ( probably Android, too, but I haven't tried it), and it also with Bluetooth devices. It can also make your Mac an AirPlay receiver and if you run Airfoil Satellite on iOS, you can turn your iOS device into an AirPlay receiver for the Mac.

Personally, I only have one newer Airport Express and three of the older versions. However, I mainly use AirPlay that is built into my receivers, which I find more useful since it can turn on the receivers automatically and take over the volume of those receivers.
 
I seem to have a different opinion than others here, but mine is backed up by a number of truly blind listening tests.

The analog out (DAC) on the AE is excellent. Better than all 3 external DACs I've put it up against: Emotiva XDA2 ($300), Emotiva DC-1 ($500), DSPeaker Anit-mode 2.0 ($1,200). And these DACs are no slouches.

All were auditioned in a truly blind test with matched levels, switching from analog out from the AE directly into the amp, to optical out into each DAC, then out to the amp. On almost every pick, the AE was chosen as the winner. Just last week my entire audio club did a blind test against the $1,200 DSPeaker. Everyone agreed the AE sounded better. So I sold off all my DACs and just use the AE analog into my tube integrated. The sound is fuller, more dynamic, and better resolved.

According to my research, if you're just counting sound quality, the Airport Express is a killer. There are other things to consider as noted above (constant on, Airplay requires strong wi-fi infrastructure and drains device battery). I also have a Chromecast Audio which requires a lesser wi-fi network and integrates better in a non-Apple environment with no battery drain. But I would want to use an external DAC with it. With the AE, it doesn't get any simpler. I only stream Tidal Hi-Fi, so the AE is my only source and my DAC. So I have the AE to my integrated to my speakers. Simple signal path, limited amount of cables to degrade the sound. Sounds amazing. For me it's perfect.

Hope this helps.
Hi Rex81,
which AE do you use?. 1st gen or 2nd gen..

thanks
 
I have a second gen N model that I use on my main system with analog out, and I just ordered another one to use with my second system, which has an Onkyo A-9010 integrated with a Wolfstrom DAC, so I use optical in that system (used the old one with it before, and a 3rd gen Apple TV that is crapping out). I think they sound fine, but I use them out of convenience being a completely Apple user, in a mostly Apple household.
 
Hi Rex81,
which AE do you use?. 1st gen or 2nd gen..

thanks

Mine is a 2nd gen, although I've heard the 1st gen actually sounds better.

I think a lot of people just assume an external DAC (even a $100 Schitt) will sound better than anything onboard a streamer (or in this case a router.) But after a blind test, I think a lot of people will realize that the onboard DACs are actually really well implemented.

The DAC in my Bluesound Node streamer is even better.
 
Look at the La Rosita streamers:

http://www.larosita.fr/

In effect apple air express installed in another enclosure coupled to an improved dac and power supply. They also supply a iTunes plugin for optimal wifi straem to the air express.

I use their alpha new implementation of the air express, just excellent!
 
All the responses so far are spot on. The Airport Express can provide a quality streaming experience, but the built-in DAC is pretty meh. It's not horrible, but you can do better. The advantage to the Airport Express is it's easy to set up and works well with other Apple products (iTunes, Macs, IPhones, and iPads). That makes it a simple solution for users of other Apple products.

My Airport Express journey started about three and half years ago. My girlfriend wanted a stereo for her place - small cottage in the woods on her parent's farm. She just wanted something that was easy to use that would let her stream iTunes from her iPad and iPhone. So, I bought her an Airport Express and an inexpensive FiiO D3 DAC. I gave her an NAD 7025 receiver and a pair of Polk RTi28 speakers and hooked it all up for her. It's been running flawlessly ever since and was exactly what she wanted. She's very happy with it.

Prior to hooking it up for her, I gave it a test listen at my place, and while you can hook the Airport Express up directly to the RCA inputs of any amp or receiver using a standard 3.5mm mini to RCA Y-adapter cable, the sound quality can be improved significantly with the use on an external DAC- even the little $25 FiiO D3 is an improvement over the Airport Express' internal DAC. The key is you need Toslink to mini optical cable that plugs into the same jack on the back of the Airport Express as the standard 3.5mm mini - RCA cable. However, the optical cable bypasses the Airport Express' internal DAC allowing you to use it with a higher quality, better sounding external DAC.

My youngest daughter liked this set up so much, she wanted a similar one for her bedroom. So, same Airport Express/FiiO D3 combination for her, plus a Sansui 221 receiver and a pair of Monitor Audio Bronze bookshelf speakers = another happy customer.

I finally broke down and ripped all my CDs in lossless format to an old Mac Mini I picked up cheap on craigslist. I added a Cambridge DACMagic 100 and use that in my master bedroom system, but it also serves as a music server for my entire home. I purchased two more (used) Airport Expresses, one for the guest bedroom and one for the downstairs system. However, be aware that the jitter problems with the newer Airport Express models are real. Because of this, they don't play well with all external DACs. The Cambridge DACMagic 100 I received as Christmas gift two and a half years ago is completely unusable with the Airport Express - so it stays tethered to the Mac Mini through a USB cable. The guest bedroom system uses another of the cheap FiiO D3 DACS (for now), but the best sound I've gotten out of an Airport Express to date is by pairing it with a Schiit Modi 2 Uber in my main downstairs system (using one of the Toslink - mini optical cables as described above). This combination works great and I highly recommend it if you plan to go the Airport Express route.

In fact, now I'm thinking about upgrading the downstairs system to the new Schiit Modi Multibit and moving the Modi 2 Uber into the guest bedroom system.

Probably not the most cost effective system, but easy to set up and plays nice with iTunes and other Apple products. Sounds great when paired with a compatible external DAC (like the Schiit products). It's very easy to control from any iPhone or IPad, but I also stream from my Lenovo laptop running Windows10 when at my girlfriend's place. I also like the convenience of being able to pull out my iPhone and control the music to all three home systems from anywhere in the house.

And I like Heather's idea of streaming to her porch through an Airport Express. I finished a patio at the girlfriend's place a couple months ago and plan to add some outdoor speakers and a small integrated amp (in a covered area) and will add another Airport Express (and probably a FiiO D3 Dac,, maybe not). This system won't be built for ultimate sound quality, just a convenient way to stream some tunes outdoors while cooking out and relaxing on the patio.

MCM Fan, bumping this thread as this post details exactly the situation I'm in. Currently streaming tidal off the AE thru analog into my amp & speakers.
What differences in sound could you please describe using
- analog
- optical & D03
- optical & Schiit
Your personal experience would really help me decide. I currently find the output thru the analog (airplay volume at 100%) too "harsh/metallic" leading to early fatigue.
 
The analog out put is to edgy for me. I use mine with the optical output through an external DAC in my HT processor or high fi system and the sound is pretty good. Mcintosh just introduced a MB 20 Blu-tooth transceiver using 5.0 rather than 2.0. coding.for transmitting. I want to try that and if that works better I'll scrap my 11 year old air port express. All its going to give you is 48 K, the new MB120 is up to 192K 32 bit transmitting and 96K recieving if I remember correctly.I apologize if I.m wrong. All my computers and iPads and Iphones Have blu-tooth so that will make life easier. Airport express uses Air play.
 
MCM Fan, bumping this thread as this post details exactly the situation I'm in. Currently streaming tidal off the AE thru analog into my amp & speakers.
What differences in sound could you please describe using
- analog
- optical & D03
- optical & Schiit
Your personal experience would really help me decide. I currently find the output thru the analog (airplay volume at 100%) too "harsh/metallic" leading to early fatigue.
My guess is that you would prefer the sound of an outboard DAC to help with some of the jitter issues. I used to have one plugged into a PS Audio DAC and it sounded smoother.

The analog out put is to edgy for me. I use mine with the optical output through an external DAC in my HT processor or high fi system and the sound is pretty good. Mcintosh just introduced a MB 20 Blu-tooth transceiver using 5.0 rather than 2.0. coding.for transmitting. I want to try that and if that works better I'll scrap my 11 year old air port express. All its going to give you is 48 K, the new MB120 is up to 192K 32 bit transmitting and 96K recieving if I remember correctly.I apologize if I.m wrong. All my computers and iPads and Iphones Have blu-tooth so that will make life easier. Airport express uses Air play.
Bluetooth is still lossy and doesn't have the range of wifi. I am actually surprised they have a Bluetooth only unit at this price point. I would stick with the AE for now. There could still be an update after Apple releases their lossless service.
 
I don't DO bluetooth - but I've upped my game in the last year.
The Airport Express is still next to my amp, but its unplugged now, no longer in use.

I've replaced it with a Raspberry Pi4 (RPi4) running Volumio. The Pi4's USB output feeds an SMSL M100 DAC instead of the vintage Audio Alchemy DAC I used with the Airport.

So - I can use REMOTE App on my iPhone to send music from my MacPro in the upstairs office (Much like I used to do with the Airports), but now to the RPi4,
OR, I can connect to the RPi4 from my iPhone and have the RPi4 play music from Grateful Dead radio, Radio Paradise, or pick a streaming services like Qobuz in higher high resolution rates (24/192k shown). Much higher rates that the Airports can do. Sound is greatly improved.

RPi4Vol-192k__3106.jpg
 
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Has anyone compared an Apple Airport Express to any of these 'known' DACs?

Ken Rockwell thinks they are pretty great and has some science and experienced ear to back it up.

http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/airport-express-audio-quality-2014.htm

But curious to hear what an observer hears in their home system and how it compares to dedicate audio gear?

Considering some of the features: price, lossless wireless audio, convenience. Why isnt it widely used? Has it been overlooked?
I use the optical S/PDIF output from my Airport Express, which is connected to a 2.1 Parasound P6. I am very pleased with this system. Thing is on June 21st as I understand it Apple will be introducing Spatial Audio, their branding for Dolby ATMOS, so while I will continue to use Airport Express to deliver AAC and ALAC at 16/44.1 it looks like HDMI will be used to deliver Spatial Audio from laptop to OPPO-205 for ATMOS processing.
 
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