Apple ditches analog line-out from Sept 2012

dalethorn said:
How many times do I have to explain why you are wrong? You can't move on because corporatism governs the competition too.

Every post you make to "counter" my bad experience is a denial.

And BTW, it isn't a "bad experience" - it's bad intent on Apple's part.
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I guess I don't understand why your "bad" experience has to trump someone's good one. I have used Apple products, and Microsoft's, interchangeably since the 80's. For me, it's Apple, hands down, but anyone who does not like them can make other choices. If "corporatism" is so pervasive and unavoidable, accept it or turn your back on it. Stop buying consumer products altogether. Or start your own company and do better.

Sure, Apple has bad intent towards their customers. They hate them, frankly, and only trick them into thinking they are getting something they actually want. Thanks for showing us the way on this. From now on, I'm supporting the underdog, that champion of the little guy, Microsoft.
 
RamblinE said:
Bad service from Dell huh? I'm not disputing it but the software company my father works for has used Dell for about maybe almost ten years now. The corporate support is supposed to be very good. In an 8 person outfit, all working from home, the dependability of the machine and the quality of the service probably matters more then in a much larger company. I've defidently seen and used junky Dell machines but they've got some nice ones as well. Seems to be a get what you pay for kind of deal? I don't really know for sure. I've had an HP for almost 4 years now and before that I had Apple/Asus.
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The IT guys at work say that their corporate accounts get much better service (too bad I am one of the unwashed masses that bought their computer without a corporate account). The computer I bought from them was one of their top gaming PCs at the time, XPS or something like that, (I still have it in the attic if you really want a pic for proof that I own it). I spent a lot of money for it and when I got it, it had an extremely loud fan. When I called them, I got transported to another country that barely understood English. I talked to two people and neither of them understood them meaning of the word "fan".

They may have updated their service since then, but I won't be dealing with them again after that.

I also still have the broken HP and I know I have a pic on of the Sony already on the web.
 
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uofmtiger said:
The IT guys at work say that their corporate accounts get much better service. The computer I bought from them was one of their top gaming PCs at the time, XPS or something like that, (I still have it in the attic if you really want a pic for proof that I own it). I spent a lot of money for it and when I got it, it had an extremely loud fan. When I called them, I got transported to another country that barely understood English. I talked to two people and neither of them understood them meaning of the word "fan".

They may have updated their service since then, but I won't be dealing with them again after that.

I also still have the broken HP and I know I have a pic on of the Sony already on the web.
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No, I'm not doubting you. I'm a DSL customer from the local service provider. Was once told I'd receive much better customer service if I switched to their fiber optic service. At least the person on the other side of the line was being honest....
 
RamblinE said:
A life style product combines an element of style with a high degree of ease of use. However this ease of use hampers functionality. It's a trade off really. Androids are much more functional phones but there's something about the simple look of an iPhone coupled with it's extreme ease of use that attracts people, even if the iPhone lags behind Android in functionality (like the old issue of why iPhones couldn't do app multi-tasking when my almost antique blackberry can, or why iPhones didn't used to support Adobe Flash when Androids did). A life style product is a compromise between form and function.
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Boom. Exactly! :yes:
 
I still use an iPod classic and have had no issues with sound quality. I agree that it may not be the best in terms of sound quality, but even with a pair of $200+ AKG headphones the headphone out on the iPod didn't sound all that bad.
 
Rapidan said:
I guess I don't understand why your "bad" experience has to trump someone's good one.
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It doesn't. But neither do you have to post your good experience so many times to effect a denial of Apple's bad customer service.

Edit: I managed electronics retail stores in the L.A. area for seven years, and I can tell you that 3 or 4 good customer experiences do not compensate for one bad one. Not even 20 good experiences compensate. How many does it take? I don't know, but it's a big number.
 
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RamblinE said:
A life style product combines an element of style with a high degree of ease of use. However this ease of use hampers functionality. It's a trade off really. Androids are much more functional phones but there's something about the simple look of an iPhone coupled with it's extreme ease of use that attracts people, even if the iPhone lags behind Android in functionality (like the old issue of why iPhones couldn't do app multi-tasking when my almost antique blackberry can, or why iPhones didn't used to support Adobe Flash when Androids did). A life style product is a compromise between form and function.
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So does this make "life style" products the products of choice for the simpletons among us? I hope not, cause if it does then I need to reverse myself and go buy them, but I sure don't want to.

Shelly_D
 
shelly_d said:
So does this make "life style" products the products of choice for the simpletons among us? I hope not, cause if it does then I need to reverse myself and go buy them, but I sure don't want to. Shelly_D
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Both Beats and Bose headphones are widely known as lifestyle products, yet they are near the bottom of the heap for sound quality. More of those lifestyle headphones, with even worse sound, are being released all the time.

If the problem were only money and bling and kids wasting their allowances on this crap, that would be one thing. But when the lifestyle choice over a high fidelity item results in hearing damage, it's more serious.
 
dalethorn said:
It doesn't. But neither do you have to post your good experience so many times to effect a denial of Apple's bad customer service.

Edit: I managed electronics retail stores in the L.A. area for seven years, and I can tell you that 3 or 4 good customer experiences do not compensate for one bad one. Not even 20 good experiences compensate. How many does it take? I don't know, but it's a big number.
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Google Apple customer satisfaction. Google Apple support customer satisfaction. They lead the industry by a wide margin. Maybe the problem here isn't with Apple.
 
JonL said:
Google Apple customer satisfaction. Google Apple support customer satisfaction. They lead the industry by a wide margin. Maybe the problem here isn't with Apple.
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And so when Apple lies time after time and people catch them at it, you blame the victim instead. I see your point. "Your honor, she asked for it, dressing that way and provoking me." Sound familiar?

Edit: Almost forgot - since Apple leads in customer satisfaction, that means they never do anything wrong. Glad I remembered that.
 
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For those who are trying to raise the point that 'most' of Apple's customer base are happy, ask yourself... how many of these people are technologically adept? Most of them are the sort who go for the restart button and cross their fingers every time their computer has a hiccup.

People choose Apple because it's 'trendy' and 'stylish', and I agree with their choice - they've got the looks. Popularity does not nullify any flaws... just like We Built This City.
 
Guys, please - as the nutter who started this thread, it was never intended to bash Apple. Yes, I have my own misgivings re Apple Corp, but almost everything that has been posted here is pure speculation.

Until someone actually mates one of the new iDevices to their Dock/DAC/in-car system and tries to play a tune, we wont know what does and does not work. I'm also not entirely sure how my initial (mis)information - that analog out would no longer work from the new adapter - morphed into a debate over whether or not the new Lightning port would work with various USB DACs. Something similar happened in the HF thread - until someone actually lays hands on the new toys, its all hot air. Even David from Cypher Labs cant categorically state that the CLAS will work from the Lightning cable, but given that he paid Apple for the right to extract the digital stream from their devices I suspect that he has a little more reason to be hopeful.

Apologies to all for inadvertently unleashing so much attitude into these generally karmic halls. Peace.
 
estreeter said:
Guys, please - as the nutter who started this thread, it was never intended to bash Apple. Yes, I have my own misgivings re Apple Corp, but almost everything that has been posted here is pure speculation.
Until someone actually mates one of the new iDevices to their Dock/DAC/in-car system and tries to play a tune, we wont know what does and does not work. I'm also not entirely sure how my initial (mis)information - that analog out would no longer work from the new adapter - morphed into a debate over whether or not the new Lightning port would work with various USB DACs. Something similar happened in the HF thread - until someone actually lays hands on the new toys, its all hot air. Even David from Cypher Labs cant categorically state that the CLAS will work from the Lightning cable, but given that he paid Apple for the right to extract the digital stream from their devices I suspect that he has a little more reason to be hopeful. Apologies to all for inadvertently unleashing so much attitude into these generally karmic halls. Peace.
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Thanks for posting this. Don't forget that Apple is not a person, but a giant mega-corporation that operates manufacturing in Communist China, pollutes the Earth etc. etc. So they're no worse than other such corporations, but still they are what they are, and bashing them harms nobody. It may even help to focus awareness on certain issues, which is healthy.
 
Yet it is NOT the topic of this thread, which went from helpful and technically informative to political and bickering.
 
If the plug was changed to something nearly the same size, the argument against them would hold more water. It's significantly smaller, and doesn't leave a big hole in the bottom of the phone to get clogged with dust and dirty from my pockets. I'm actually very happy they changed it, I hate the current plug. And I don't think a normal mini-USB wouldn't work with the thinness of the phone.
 
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1TUFSS said:
For those who are trying to raise the point that 'most' of Apple's customer base are happy, ask yourself... how many of these people are technologically adept? Most of them are the sort who go for the restart button and cross their fingers every time their computer has a hiccup.

People choose Apple because it's 'trendy' and 'stylish', and I agree with their choice - they've got the looks. Popularity does not nullify any flaws... just like We Built This City.
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The same can be said of any phone. Do you think those that got a free Android with a contract are all tech savvy geniuses?

Most people do not want a phone that works like a kid's science project. They want a reliable, smooth running machine that does what they need it to do. The fact is that many people choose the iPhone for those reasons. However, there is also a user base for the iPhone that want to just use it as a tinker toy. They jailbreak it if they want to do that... I was on that side of the equation until the iPhone added multitasking (which I wanted to play music in the background) and folders.

By the way, I did not choose Apple because it was stylish or trendy. I picked it because it was a huge upgrade to the Treo I was using. I had an Apple Touch before that and wanted to take these apps with me all the time. No one at the time had better, smoother running phones for my needs.

The thing that keeps me using an iPhone is the Apple ecosystem. Siri, Photostream, sharing apps across devices, third party support, and Airplay have all changed the way I use my phone. No one is currently offering a compelling reason to leave Apple at this point. However, my needs may be different from your average tech savvy geek.
 
dalethorn said:
And so when Apple lies time after time and people catch them at it, you blame the victim instead. I see your point. "Your honor, she asked for it, dressing that way and provoking me." Sound familiar?

Edit: Almost forgot - since Apple leads in customer satisfaction, that means they never do anything wrong. Glad I remembered that.
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Of course Apple doesn't do everything right all the time. No one does. No individual, no family, no corporation. However, it seems to me that if the vast majority of people report very satisfying experiences with Apple support, and you've had numerous bad experiences, then either you are extremely unlucky, or there's another term in the equation that needs to be examined.

As for Apple's corporatism and track record on sociability (environmental, working conditions, etc.), again, they aren't perfect but they are probably better than most other corporations... perhaps way better than almost all who manufacture consumer goods. Despite my repeated disagreements with you about Apple in this thread, I think I share your underlying sentiments about corporatism but I think there are much better targets. I'd be focusing on companies that are more directly involved with food supply, energy supply, and defense. But that's a topic for another forum.
 
Despite the continual reinterpretation of what I said, my usage of and appreciation of any actual products has NOTHING to do with customer service. The part of Apple that makes great products deserves praise, and the part that screws over their users deserves condemnation, no matter the apologists here who would like to divert your attention.
 
JonL said:
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As for Apple's corporatism and track record on sociability (environmental, working conditions, etc.), again, they aren't perfect but they are probably better than most other corporations... perhaps way better than almost all who manufacture consumer goods. ...
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To address just the point on Apple's record on environmental issues and working conditions. Apple uses Fox Con in China for their manufacturing. That company has an abysmal record for working conditions. About the only abuse I have not heard leveled against them is child labor abuse. So, yes Apple is a step above the worst bottom feeders but that is not very high. Also, Fox Con has a poor environmental record as well. So if Apple is not doing anything to offset that (I am not aware of anything here) again Apple is only one small step above the bottom feeders. This certainly does NOT make them "way better than almost all who manufacture consumer goods".

Does this make them unworthy to sell products in the US. Of course not. That is not the point of this post. My point is that Apple is not the socially consonance company that you seem to believe it is, that is all.

Shelly_D
 
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