Are all phono pre-amps the same?

HiFiJeff

HiFiJeff

Super Member
Looking into purchasing my first turntable and had a question in regards to a phono pre-amp to connect to my dac/pre-amp. It obviously doesn't have a phono stage. So I need to buy one. I have been looking at all kinds of different phono pre-amps. Some affordable, some expensive and was wondering if they are all pretty much the same? I mean it's a simple concept, take a phono signal and convert it to a louder more powerful line level signal. Correct?

So what is the difference between a $500 phono like this https://avahifi.com/collections/for-vinyl-lovers/products/vision-q-phono-preamplifier

compared to a $130 one like this? http://www.schiit.com/products/mani
 
HiFiJeff said:
Looking into purchasing my first turntable and had a question in regards to a phono pre-amp to connect to my dac/pre-amp. It obviously doesn't have a phono stage. So I need to buy one. I have been looking at all kinds of different phono pre-amps. Some affordable, some expensive and was wondering if they are all pretty much the same? I mean it's a simple concept, take a phono signal and convert it to a louder more powerful line level signal. Correct?

So what is the difference between a $500 phono like this https://avahifi.com/collections/for-vinyl-lovers/products/vision-q-phono-preamplifier

compared to a $130 one like this? http://www.schiit.com/products/mani
Click to expand...


No they are not all the same, not at all.

You are somewhat correct on the function of the phono stage, but each have different circuitry.

I can say the Schiit Audio phono stage is nice, I'd go with the Rolls if you are looking for a low buck stage. Price and quality just keep going up from there.

the differences will be the price tag, sound stage, and build quality.

Kind Regards,
John
 
jobrewer1983 said:
No they are not all the same, not at all.

You are somewhat correct on the function of the phono stage, but each have different circuitry.

I can say the Schiit Audio phono stage is nice, I'd go with the Rolls if you are looking for a low buck stage. Price and quality just keep going up from there.

the differences will be the price tag, sound stage, and build quality.

Kind Regards,
John
Click to expand...

Is this what you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/rolls-VP29-P...1527113868&sr=8-1&keywords=phono+preamp+rolls
 
They are FAR from all the same. The phono preamp is the most important electronic component in a vinyl system. Its job is more difficult to do properly than a line stage or power amp, and the results affect the sound more.

I haven't done a personal survey of inexpensive phono preamps, so I can't recommend one in particular, but the differences between them are similar to the differences between loudspeakers, although typically not quite as pronounced. You will hear more of what is on your records with a better phono preamp.
 
sqlsavior said:
They are FAR from all the same. The phono preamp is the most important electronic component in a vinyl system. Its job is more difficult to do properly than a line stage or power amp, and the results affect the sound more.

I haven't done a personal survey of inexpensive phono preamps, so I can't recommend one in particular, but the differences between them are similar to the differences between loudspeakers, although typically not quite as pronounced. You will hear more of what is on your records with a better phono preamp.
Click to expand...

Can you give me some suggestions within reason? I am just getting into vinyl on a budget and want to ease my way in with something of high quality but not crazy expensive.
 
Agreed--not they are not all the same.

The two primary functions of a phono pre are to accurately apply the RIAA equalization "decoding" from the recording, and to amplify the small signal (typically mV) to a useable line-level signal (~2 V).

Some RIAA circuits are more "accurate" than others.

The means of amplifying the small signal to line level also varies, from a single IC chip, to opamps, to discrete components, or even tubes. Higher quality components and better designs cost more money.
 
Ridiculously underpriced, but well-regarded is the ArtDJ II phono preamp. For a starter set-up it performs well beyond its price point--which is only $50. Lots of posts here and on other forums regarding that unit, so do some searching.
 
Make sure your DAC/Pre-amp isn't strictly digital like my NAD C510...it won't accept a phonostage.
You might also consider a used but respected integrated amp with a good phonostage for a couple hundred smackers...something like an Advent 300 or Kenwood KA3500.
 
Todd Dodds said:
Make sure your DAC/Pre-amp isn't strictly digital like my NAD C510...it won't accept a phonostage.
You might also consider a used but respected integrated amp with a good phonostage for a couple hundred smackers...something like an Advent 300 or Kenwood KA3500.
Click to expand...

I specifically asked that question today. And the guy at Crutchfield said that it would accept an analog phono stage. How can I be sure though? This is what I have.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio_visual/wireless_streaming_amplifiers/wxc-50/features.html
 
HiFiJeff said:
Is this what you are talking about? https://www.amazon.com/rolls-VP29-P...1527113868&sr=8-1&keywords=phono+preamp+rolls
Click to expand...

That's the one, they also have a single tube stage as well. Both sound good , and are not to much money. Good build quality as well.

I do like the Creek Audio Phono stages, they can be found on eBay for good deals. Cambridge audio Phono stages are also quite nice.

I'd try to track down a good used one if your looking to save $$. Good luck with it :)
 
OK so a phono to line out circuit it what you need. I suggest the dB systems pre-preamp. It really has no sound of it's own.
 
Make sure you know what type of cartridge you will use. MM or MC. Not all phono preamps have Inputs for both. I am guessing you are new to vinyl (and I don’t want to offend you as I don’t know how much you know already). So here is a basic primer. MM is a moving magnet cartridge, MC is moving coil. Most preamps will accept an MM. Not all preamps accept MC. MC carts are typically lower output signal and the need a higher gain stage in the phono preamp. There are “high output MC” which would work on a phono preamp with just MM input. My suggestion is to determine the turntable and tone arm and the type of cartridge you will use. Then check with who ever you buy the phono stage from to make sure the cart and phono stage are compatible. I have two Project Box S and I love them. They were also in my price range too. Someday I will design and build my own tube stage that can take handle multiple turntables and adjustable loading.....someday....


Many preamps now have usb output so you can record vinyl to a computer. Unless you are buying a real higher quality and higher priced preamp with USB, these usb models will not be as good as a stand alone phono preamp. I had a Tascam US-100 that had phono in and USB out, it was a nice unit for what it was built for, but nowhere close to the Project phono box s I now have (they do not have USB OUT). So just be aware. If you want USB out the go for it.

Many phono stages also have the ability to “load”.. what this means is that every cartridge has an output impedance. You want to match the output impedance of the cart (typically around 47k) with the input impedance of the phono stage. Doing this will maximize the transfer of power from cartridge to phono preamp. There are also abilities to change the capacitance so the cartridge and phono preamp are the same.
 
HiFiJeff said:
Crutchfield just confirmed again that it WILL accept a phono pre. In fact he was suggesting the Pro-ject phono.
Click to expand...
Buy the ART Dj Pre II as recommended, hard to go wrong at the price. It's a remarkable value. If you don't like the sound of it, you can return it (I've sold about a twenty of them and nobody has returned one yet). Note you will need an extra pair of interconnects (stereo male RCA to stereo male RCA) to connect between the preamp and aux inputs on your Yamaha, but those are everywhere.

Don't worry about MC, loading, or any of that stuff. 98% of the people who listen to vinyl (my turntable repair customers) play a stock setup, which is a moving magnet cartridge into a stock outboard phono stage (like the ART) or into some kind of receiver with a phono stage built into it.

There are lots of helpful people here on AK, but there are lots of others who are well-intentioned but make things seem overly complicated for newbies because they've forgotten what it's like to be one. They're fans of their own gear, which is fine for them. But this is about your journey. Start simple and bang-for-buck. You can always upgrade later. Right now, you need a decent starter system and MORE RECORDS!

Vinyl playback isn't that complex -- tens of millions of people had basic setups back in the day and they worked just fine. It's a little different now, but not that much. You're already on the right track.
 
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bangsezmax said:
Buy the ART Dj Pre II as recommended, hard to go wrong at the price. It's a remarkable value. If you don't like the sound of it, you can return it (I've sold about a twenty of them and nobody has returned one yet). Note you will need an extra pair of interconnects (stereo male RCA to stereo male RCA) to connect between the preamp and aux inputs on your Yamaha, but those are everywhere.

Don't worry about MC, loading, or any of that stuff. 98% of the people who listen to vinyl (my turntable repair customers) play a stock setup, which is a moving magnet cartridge into a stock outboard phono stage (like the ART) or into some kind of receiver with a phono stage built into it.

There are lots of helpful people here on AK, but there are lots of others who are well-intentioned but make things seem overly complicated for newbies because they've forgotten what it's like to be one. They're fans of their own gear, which is fine for them. But this is about your journey. Start simple and bang-for-buck. You can always upgrade later. Right now, you need a decent starter system and MORE RECORDS!

Vinyl playback isn't that complex -- tens of millions of people had basic setups back in the day and they worked just fine. It's a little different now, but not that much. You're already on the right track.
Click to expand...

x2
 
I haven’t heard art dj pre but the fact that it is always recommended must mean something. My budget choice would be a hagerman phono pre. My advice based on trial and error is start out with one of the $100 ish ones and if you decide to go whole hog vinyl in the future skip the $400 crowd and get a super nice phono section in the $700+ range. The difference is there but don’t feel like you can’t enjoy yourself with one of the decent budget pres imo.
 
My first external Phono Pre was the Art DJ Pre .. it was okay .. the gain feature was nice for headphone rigs (when you sit close to phono pre). You could adjust the gain (good for records with high amount of surface noise) on the fly. Used it for couple of years and it still worked when I put it into caretaker status (my closet).

The Technolink TC 760 (little over $70) sounded much better to me on my headphone rig (Music Hall MMF 2.1 w/ Ortofon Red cart/Schiit Vali). Originally purchased this for my mains but it was replaced with Cambridge Audio Azur 551P. One day I just tried out the TC 760 on my headphone rig (in place of Art DJ Pre) and it's been there since.
 
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