Are big Yamaha CR series receivers worth much?

Yammie Love

Hi Guys

I'm the guy with the CR-640 on Merrylander's bench, and I want to tell you all what a pleasure he is to deal with. But you knew that already......

I've owned (and still use) a wide variety of equipment, and I'm here to tell you that that Yammie 640 with a pair of KEF Chorale speakers makes some of the sweetest MUSIC you will ever hear.

Now, if you want to blast ZZ Top at "11" on the volume knob, I have an SAE Mark III CM and a pair of JBL Horizons that will stun and kill small mammals--BUT--the musicality of the Yamaha is tops. Especially when you consider the watts per price ratio. I bought that 640 new when I was in college, and used it straight through around til 1994-5. I moved cross-country 3 times, and always had the Yammie with me. I own and use a variety of stuff, including tube, SS, vintage and new, and if I were "stranded" on that proverbial island, I'd make sure that Yammie was with me.

I just recently got it back after about 10 years, after having "lent" it to a cousin who had just moved out on her own and didn't have two nickels to her name. Sadly, she almost killed it, and I found it under a pile of crap in her garage, coverd with detritus and wood shavings. It looked like it had gone up Sugarloaf with the Marines......She thought she had thrown it out, or given it away. She couldn't believe I wanted it back. Her idea of fine audio is an ipod docked to a little Bose speaker module. (puke)

Anyway, it cleaned up real good, and I sent it off to Rob, and he assures me it's back in fighting trim, and ready to sing again. I can't wait. The piece of gear I've ever like as much is my Gibson Byrdland!

Best,
Franz
or Frank if you prefer...
 
I have just gone through this thread, as I have wondered myself about the dlemma.

I own a Pioneer SX-1250 & Bose 800s Professional speakers (w/EQ). Got them from a business assoc. The Pioneer just needed a good cleaning and two pots, the 11-step bass and 11-step treble (broken shafts). Still need the 11-step treble. Anyone got one, let me know. It measured, DC Offset at least very well. Like +7 and +2 mV. No prob.
Oh yes, the tuner is SPOT on!

Also, own a Yamaha M-2. Thanks to BOLLY for supplying me with the specs and tolerances, I was able to get the M-2 back into spec relatively easy. Blame someone who opened it, probably to replace the lamps (they burn out so easily and randomly) and fiddled with the pots. One channel was a bit warm, the other cold. -500mV offset on both channels. Now get this:

+-60V respective on both rails respectively for left and right channels. Only one rail is set at like 60.1. Have a half volt to play with as tolerance. Bias is set at 55 mV spot on. Offset is now at 0 mV and 1mV respectively. Checked the M-4, wasn't worth dabling with. Only DC balance (offset) needed a slight tweak. It's now at 0 mV on both channels.

Give it up to some good cheapo 25 year old pots.

Anyway a lil more cleaning to do. But to the point, the Yammy gear sounds better. It has a less fatigueing (did I spell that right) sound especially in the highs. Moreso, at higher volume settings the M-2 has way more control. I can pump up some old Olympics from a reciever/record player combo (yes its way old),and it sounds terrific. The bass is well controlled. Hook up the Pioneer, good sound but the bass begins to get distorted a bit earlier. Basically I can crank it higher. Maybe I need to compare it too the M-4. Oh well, that DAMPENING factor may have something to do with it, 200 vs 30. (One caveat, dunno if the Pioneer is over entire region or just at 1 KHz like the yammies specs.)

I believe the resale is not as high for the Yammie stuff, because the separate stuff demands a premium most of the time. I had missed so many due to girlfriend interruptions and what not that I just paid the 200+ BIN prices for the C-4 and M-4. Got the M-2 for 75 at pawn shop :banana: :naughty: :lmao: :lmao: :smoke:

Notice that the toroidal transformers look very similar, probably sourced from same Nipponese manufacturer. Also wondering if the TO-3s are the same. If everything else were the same, the count of trasistors would match the power ratings, six per channel in the M-2 for 240 and 4 for 160 in the 1250. Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm!!!

Anyway like both. Again, I believe the discrepancy is due to the separates stuff. Additionally, there aren't any Yammie recievers built like the SX-1250 as far as I can tell--the separate amplifier section set apart, the heatsinks outboard. Even though some of the recievers look inside like the C-4 (the steps taken to keep short signal path), the SX-1250 and Yammie M-2 have more in common than the Yammie Recievers and Separates (don't shoot me!)

Both are great products. I prefer the SX-1250 for its resale and classy looks, tuner!, and options.

I like the Yammie separates cause they are awesome for whatever price.

Oh yes, Dont think the yammie metal used for the covers of amps and some other places was up to snuff. Guess everything that took the boat ride has had a tendency to do the slow-surface rust thing.

Let me end, whew I could go on for days!!!

Thanks again BOLLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Regarding the Class argument, so far so good. Initially when the first transistor amps came out everyone was raving about "transistor sound", until they had listened for an hour or so and the headaches started. This was Class B and the sound was crossover distortion. Hard to draw pictures here, but it was basically that it took a finite period of time for the "off" transistor to switch "on" and so there was this flat spot at the zero crossing of the sine wave. So we then got Class AB, that means that the "off" transistor really is not "off" but is "idling" ready and waiting to roll. Every Yammie that I have worked on, with the exception of the CR-n40 series, has adjustments for "idling current". In most of the CR-n40s it is built into the Sanyo thick film components with the exception of the CR-2040. Since that unit has discrete components it has both DC Offset (like the rest of that series) and Idling current adjustments.

I have never encountered listening fatigue with any Yamaha that was properly adjusted. I had an A-1 integrated amp for over 20 years. Before I sold it I checked the settings and everything was within spec. As to the poor lamp complaints that A-1 finally had a lamp fail after 18 years, I only wish that GE and Philips light bulbs were that good.

Rob
 
My limited, anecdotal experience vis a vis Yamaha light bulbs suggests that the amps (separates)? and receivers maye have been different in terms of life expectancy? Most of the CR-x20 receivers I've seen at this point have lamps out. My CA-610II (bought new) and CT-610II (from eBAY a few years ago) still have good lamps.

Perhaps Merrylander has insight, although it's equally possible that my sample set is too small!

As to Class B crossover distortion: I think this image, albeit exaggerated, gives a sense of the problem. A spectral analysis of the distortion products of the sine waveform would probably be more enlightening, but this is what I found.

class-a-3.gif


This is from the Eliott Sound Products site: http://sound.westhost.com/class-a.htm
 
My experience is that the Yammy CA, CT, and CR series had a very sophisticated ( for the time ) amp and speaker protection circuit. It worked very well when new, but troubleshooting it was very time consuming. At current shop labor rates, most people would not pay to fix them.
 
I think the reason most CR-series units are seen with burnt out lamps is because they are soldered in place and as a result rarely get changed. Most other brands use plug in lamps that are (relatively) easy to replace albeit some are a real PITA. Yamaha used either 12 or 14 volt lamps running as series pairs (think christmas trees), so two 12 volt lamps will be across a 22 volt supply and two 14 volt lamps will be across a 26 volt supply. Forget where I read it, but if you derate a 5000 hour lamp to 80% of its rated voltage it becomes a 20,000 hour lamp.

Rob
 
Will be putting a nice CR-2040 on the market at the end of the summer if anyone might be interested (have to wrest it away from my brother, who is currently using). As soon as I have time to check/set the bias and DC offset and replace the lightbulbs. Buyer can choose the level of case upgrade he wants Merrylander to do. :thmbsp:

Not only did my brother refuse to give up the CR-2040, he had me drop it off with EW for a good cleaning and check-up. At least he met my reserve.
 
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i like yamaha, i have had some great amps that are yamaha's. right now i have a yamaha c4 hooked up to a m4 and it sounds pretty good.. however better speakers would show off the amp/pre a bit more..
 
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I have a CR-1020 that I'm just tickled with. It replaced a Sanyo Plus 75. I'm not in the habit of playing loud, generally a pair of bookshelves at low levels, but it gets loud enough when played through a pair of KLH stacked on a pair of Marantzs. The KLH's sound too bright to me, and the Marantzs a little too muddy, but playing all four at the same time they sound just right...john
 
bully said:
Anecdotally, I think they were similar to the Tandberg. Similar 'crowd' purchased them. That is to say, not the younger, college-age crowd that seems to drive the market.

The Audiophile Candy Store I hung out at in the 70's sold McIntosh, Tandberg, Yamaha, and Sherwood (roughly in that order).

Today, I have a Mc in the "stereo room", a Sherwood in the guest bedroom, a Tandberg in the media room, and a Yamaha CR-1020 in my computer room.

I guess they made an impression on me back then!

Speakers? Three sets of Missions, some EPI 100s, and Boston Acoustic A-150 (the BAs are my "new" speakers).
 
I just now read through all of this. Alright, I scanned through the technical stuff. Anytime there's a Yamaha subject, I check in. As a kid, I used to go to the stereo stores with my older brother and look at all of the new gear. This was in the late 70s. It was always an impressive experience, but I became fixated on the Yamahas. By the time I was old enough to buy a decent system, the era of fantastic gear was long gone. I tried to find what I could in garage sales, but usually if I found anything, it was pretty beaten up. Not until Ebay, a friend to return all my old records, and getting rid of a nagging girlfriend, was I able to buy my first Yammie. It was a 640. After I ruined that one replacing lamps, I bought my second 640, complete with working lights and I'm very pleased with it. Not nearly content though, I must attain a 2040. I think that's when I can rest easy.
 
Merrylander, I have a CR-1040 with a bad driver IC. I understand the Sanyo # for the amp is STK-0080II, but do you know the driver? I had blown one once before and found a shop in Connecticut that actually had one or more (and the amp chips too). My only complaint about the CR-1040 is I think the amplifier circuit is a little delicate. Mine went bad at a very low volume setting, so it is possible there might be something else. I am trying to unearth a schematic/service manual, but no luck yet.
The suggestion in another thread about posting manuals, etc is very good and I have several I would be willing to complete.
Well, there is my first post... and a long one!
 
If I knew the Sanyo part # for the driver chip there would be a customer's 1040 go ut the dor fast as well as two 840s and a 640 that are sitting under the bench get back to singing.

Rob
 
Very Interesting thread for this X Yami lover.
I think the stuff I had and recently sold was all TOTL.
MX 1000 Class A Amp, MX 800 Class A& AB Amp, CX 1000 Pre and TX 950 Tuner. I also had four NS 1000M Speakers. All this gear was around 1988 vintage and it all sounded great together.

WHY X Yami Lover;

The MX 1000 amp ran about as hot as anything I have ever owned including my kitchen oven. After a good work out I swear I could fry eggs on it. It scared me.
The covers on the push buttons on each piece always fell off and I found it near impossible to keep the lights lit. Bulbs burned out all the time and only after I sold all the gear did I find a bunch of exact Yamaha bulbs that would have worked- Anyone need them????
Yamaha let us down BIG TIME and has no use for us Vintage lovers-Their LOSS. They will not help with parts and just don't care once a unit is more then 5-8 years old.
The sound quality and musical build quality was outstanding, The NS 1000M speakers were among the best I have ever owned and could rock any house just fine, almost unbreakable.
Had Yamaha been more customer oriented and cared alot more about us vintage lovers, it would still be here.
I can safely say I will never own Yamaha again but it is not because it didn't sound great, Yamaha as a company SUCKS.
Gary
 
Funny, none of my Yammies run hot, lamps are pretty easily replaced and last for a long time. The A-1 integrated amp I had ran barely warm, finally burnt out a lamp after 18 years and I got the replacements from Yamaha, with a recommendation that I change all three lamps while I was in there.

Parts availability for older units is hit or miss, got the output IC for a CR-240 last year but no parts for an R-2000 - go figure. Service manual copies are usually forthcoming quickly, guess I am a good customer.

Rob
 
aidynphoenix said:
hi i am new here and i wanted to say i like yamaha i have had some great amps that are yamahas right now i have a yamaha c4 hooked up to a m4 and it sounds superb i am useing 4 jd audio 10" woofers and 1 10" sub and it runs into my pc and it is awesome with my 4gb of music files. great bass output

but i destroyed 2 mcs 3226 amps by turning em up 2 loud anyone else have this problem or used one of these before

welcome aboard!!! nice to have you!!!
 
Well Merrylander, I wish I had the same good fortune as you!
Try to find a lamp for a Yamaha MX 1000 or even one of the condoms that usually get fused to the glass when the lamp burns out. For a unit made in 1988 I find it disheartening when they say NO PARTS available for a unit that old.
My buddy and me both had MX 1000 Class "A" amps and both run very hot as compared to other high power units. Certainly hot enough that you want the amp out in the air and nothing on top of it!
Don't get me wrong, they sound and perform great, my problem is strictly one with customer support or the lack there of. I feel this is important!
Gary
 
I for one am very happy that the price for Yamaha receivers is so low. My first piece of vintage equipment was a Yamaha CR-640 receiver (this was only about 4-5 months ago). Got it for $10.50 on ebay (plus $12 shipping). Very scratchy in the controls when I got it, but after a nice cleaning with deoxit it sounds mint! Aesthetically it also looks pretty good. Aside from a bent loudness nob, everything is great. I think it was a steal for $22 -- now I am hooked!

By the way, I figured out how to do the cleaning by reading up on this site. Thanks for the advice!
 
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