Are SPEC series gear really worth the money?

I guess I haven't explained myself properly as when I mean it's a false economy the prices are currently being driven up by people on these sites suddenly wanting them because others here have them. In a few years they will no longer be the prized possession and thus the prices will again fall.

I have seen this happen with other things like 201K Singer Sewing machines that were being wheeled and dealed for up to US$1600 and then when most people had one the prices fell. You can now easily pick one up for around US$300 and for that you have to struggle to achieve this figure.

Many of these retro items run in cycles and it's just all about the next thing that has its turn in the sun. I very much feel that 70's vintage TOTL Stereo equipment is now having it's turn and will do for a period of time. Mark my words it will again fall, but in the meantime enjoy it and don't get too sucked in by it all.

On a side note most of our kids feel that this type of gear is awful and I'm sure their interests will be in other things that we'll never play with in our lifetime.
 
From this perspective, I am sure you are right.
It is of no use looking at audio stuff as a monetary investment, unless you can guess a unit will be desirable forever.

In the end, a Pioneer Spec-4 looks like an old power supply lacking its front panel banana jacks ;)
 
I managed to buy a bunch of audio gear - mostly Pioneer.

SX-1050 x2 purchased from other Pioneer enthusiasts.

I have considered the C90 and M90 combo but wow is it expensive and wifey says no more gear as I can only listen one setup at a time and our home isn’t exactly large.

My question I guess is around cost vs. performance and SQ. For example I saw on eBay tonight that there is a restored sx-1980 on eBay for over $6000 and it makes me wonder why anyone would pay that kind of money when that price is encroaching into boutique brands like McIntosh (which I also love but can’t afford).

I love old school nostalgic equipment but common sense will still prevail once the prices start getting into the stratosphere.

Based on comments about that C/M combo, you would definitely enjoy a nice jump in SQ by letting an SX-1050 or two go and getting the combo. But then you lose that silver you love so much.
 
Years (OK--decades ago), one of my buddies' brother came home from the military (overseas/Japan) with an entire SPEC rack system--tuner, preamp, amp, EQ, expander, cassette, R2R and HPM 150's--TT was a Technics SL1200. We cranked the f**k out of that system, and were just in awe.

Now--decades later--I had been contemplating putting a whole SPEC rack like that together, just for the "nostalgia". I looked at a bunch of them. Most were fully restored (and pricey), but in all honesty, they just didn't sound that great anymore. I already had far better at home, and the prices were (in some cases) just absurd. They look awesome, and can certainly "kick some ass", but as for actual sound quality--meh.
 
As far as I'm concerned there is nothing bad to be said about the best of Pioneer's gear from that peak Silver (or the earlier-to-mid portion of their "Elite") period. The market tells the story and that story is NOT primarily about Nostalgia. The only thing exerting downward pressure on Pioneer's auction prices are that they sold so many, and they sold so many because they were GOOD. Hearing any (well maintained) SPEC product will disabuse you of any notion that they're not worth their ask pretty quickly.
As far as "New" stuff goes, with respect to amplifiers, people like to "Back to the Future" these things for reasons I've never really understood. Will it drive a difficult load like a post-Modern Sunfire, Bryston et al? No. But it will drive (and drove) virtually everything it was designed to be used within its day and do it flawlessly. I'm always reminded about a somewhat funny story that sums up pretty much everything I disliked about the 1980's. It involved my ex-wife and her (poor) husband. They bought an SX-980 and used it to drive a set of early, "biggish" Martin-Logans (it's a long, bizarre story, my ex-wife tried to advise her Husband about my affection for Pioneer's Classic era stuff and they didn't know anything beyond the fact that I liked it). They riffed their way through to a mismatch and that led to their buying a well restored 980 from a friend. I didn't find out about it until later. They cooked a couple diodes in the PS board. (I wound up with it for about $30.00.) It doesn't make those amps "bad" it just means you should know what to use them on and what not to use them on. YMMV.
 
One of the desirable features the Spec's have, is the connectability of other equipment. The Spec one is top of the line in that regard, let alone the Pioneer circuits.
And it's all in the speakers.
Fifteen years ago I heard similar discussions, and here we are.:dunno:
Good discussion and opinions.
 
I honestly think people are in love with the way they look, performance is secondary. You could certainly get higher performing gear (old or new) for that kind of coin. It is similar to the mystifying prices for something like a first generation Ford Bronco, sure they are nostalgic and kinda cool but really, north of 40K in some cases for a perfect example seems to defy logic.

Again, in the above case I think people are drawn to the tough, classic look of yesteryear. I guess how well it does what it does is not the main pull to own it.
 
To add a bit more to this thread

I feel there are many things from that era that were just plain and simply out of our reach money wise when we were either in our teens and only on basic wages, while now 30 to 40 odd years down the track we are more cashed up in life with fewer responsibilities to have to pay for, thus now many of us are able to relive our youth.

Start looking at some of the "new top end of town gear" and it's in the same league as all the Spec type gear was way back in the late 1970's.

Anyway that's a bit more of a take on it all I'd guess.
 
Again, in the above case I think people are drawn to the tough, classic look of yesteryear. I guess how well it does what it does is not the main pull to own it.
I don't know that folks are drawn to that look but more remember that look when they were as IMF said above out of reach money-wise and settled for a very fine 40-60 watt receiver or integrated amp. Now that they have the funds they can hunt down the lust of their youth and that is the spec gear and as you say, sonics be damned it is what I want and have wanted for 40 years.

Nostalgia is a huge price driver in these units, since Pioneer was the most advertised it was always well liked back in the day. How can you not like that brand when you buy that SX-650 and then see it in ads in all the audio magazines of the day. inside front cover, 2-pages, or more, some full page ads in the magazine and then the back cover. Since they were popular back then with all the ads and sales, 1/3 off list price at warehouses, can't go wrong folks thought. It met the expectations. Not many bought a new Pioneer system having already owned a few systems as most folks weren't buying a lot of systems. Most folks buying hi-fi were first time buyer who had never heard bass response. Any system in the Hi-Fi store would deliver that bass, what is not to love. And that continued to today. More people with the funds to buy the gear of their youthful lust and that is the Pio-Mar-Sui brands. The competition for these brands is what is driving up the price compared to the other brands or the separate components for the era. Sound quality be damned. It isn't bad, it is just that there is better especially for the money. Way better when you get to the higher end units with what they cost today.
 
All good points. Nostalgia is a powerful draw and I totally get the gained disposable income none of us had when we were young. The Japanese companies were great at improving on the solid state designs still somewhat in their infancy. The designs were mostly handsome and the marketing brilliant...
 
All great comments. What allured me to Pioneer was my dad and uncle's fondness for hi-fi. I can vividly recall my dad ruining my ears by blasting music on his Sony system and my uncle doing the same on his Pioneer fluoroscan system. So pretty back in the day and they sounded great. The new home theater stuff just doesn't seem to do it for me at all and when I got a job that paid me decently is when I started wanting to acquire things that I WISHED I could own when I was a kid. The lust for buying things we couldn't afford is so true. I like the 1970s Pioneer sound... my father despite being a former audio enthusiast doesn't get what all the "hoopla" is about with my hobby but he's now quite old and no longer appreciates audio the same way like he did "back in the day" when he was around my age.
 
It is kind of amusing how this thread crosses lines into several others that have been running recently, regarding vintage gear and the vintage of its owners.

Yes, most of us owners of TOTL, fully-restored vintage gear are older. We drooled over this stuff when we were younger, and now have the time and money to put into it, and there is a certain "nostalgia" to it (for me anyways).

"Disposable income" is a different story. When I was young (high school/college), the bulk of my income went to only 4 things--college, fast cars, nice stereos and partying my ass off. Actual "living expenses" were handled by my parents (high school) and then included as part of the "college package" later on. So on a % basis, I blew a lot of my income on cars and stereos--I just wasn't making that much money back then--30% of $5 is a hell of a lot less than 20% of $100--even adjusted for today's COL.

Then life gets in the way--a "real job", multiple moves, rent, car payments, mortgages, kids, etc. and suddenly there is very little "disposable income"--it is already "disposed of" as fast as you can earn it. That is why for a lot of us (myself included), that stuff like nice cars and nice stereos kind of moved to the "back burner" for a couple of decades. Now, the houses are paid for, the cars are paid for, the "nest" is empty, and it is far easier to pull out $1K and buy something that we couldn't even dream of pulling out $400 to buy new back in '79.

My buddy's brother that had the full SPEC rack had to eventually sell it because he came home at the end of his military service, got married, had kids, moved half-way across the country chasing jobs, etc. When he was in the military, Uncle Sam took care of food/clothing/housing/medical, so his paycheck was basically his to blow on whatever he wanted--then the "real world" set in.

I haven't seen him in years, but I'm guessing that, by now, he either has bought another full SPEC rack, or is "on the hunt" to replace what he had.
 
I lusted the Spec gear from high school through college, so once I started making money I picked of pieces one by one. I got a million miles out of that system and I held onto it for years. I bought the Spec 4 rebuilt on AK and the Spec 2 and Spec 1 I have had for 3 decades. About 2-3 years ago I tried to get $2K for the whole stack - mint CTF-1250, SG-9500, TX-9500 all in rack kits ... couldn't even get a decent offer. Hell, the rack kits sell for $350. Threw in a pair of Altec Model 14's and a Technics SL-1210 all in really nice shape. I finally said screw it! I'm keeping the system forever. On my birthday every year, I drag it out to the mancave and let it rip for a couple weeks. I'm sure sooner or later It will die a horrible death but I guess I can sell it off piece by piece. I even picked off an SF-850 electronic crossover a few months back and I am planning on a passive sub build to finally put both amps to work. Once a freak, always a freak. I have to hold back every time a set of HPM-100's come up for sale local.

SQ? It's not bad ... matched up with the Altecs and a small Velodyne sub it's great for what it is. Classic vintage overbuilt monster ... sort of like the muscle cars of the 70's. I see the big Pio receivers selling for $3-4K on eBay and haven't really figured that one out but then again I would trade the whole mess for a G-33000 Sansui in a nanosecond. Why all the lust for Spec? I suppose it's the look and feel - I even hunted down 10-15 sets of vintage Monster cable interconnects ... the old school ones build to last. It's sort of a snapshot of a dream system from my college years. Made a deal with myself - if I get through school and start making money, I will build my dream system. If I had the room it would be great to set up a retro-70's room with the system all hooked up and running. Vintage posters, artwork, furniture - I think it would be a kick. Beanbag chairs, lava lamps, concert posters ... cheaper than therapy.


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I've sold Spec equipment to the young guys too.
I believe that some of the market is driven through the millennials. Some of these kids (My sons age) have careers which give them extra cash to spend on audio. They too, enjoy the two channel music and once they listen to their favorite sounds on vintage gear, it's all over. Remember the TV show " That 70's show"? It made an impression on them as "Happy Days" did on us. I'm not kidding. Good pop culture, 70's era stuff sells it in a heartbeat.
About millennial audiophiles?: The tube gear is moving into their view.
 
The Pioneer gear has a significant tax associated with its acquisition. That tax is for the aforementioned collectibility and nostalgia. I like to think of it as the Stereo Lust Tax as exemplified by this post on AK a couple years back:

remember the great stereo stores of the 1970's?
man..i would walk down the pioneer aisle and physically drool.
the sx-1050 and sx-1250 owned my heart, yet my paycheck could barely afford an sx-550
those massive stacks of silver mesmerized me, and the speaker rooms? my god!!
several years ago i got my dream of ct-f8181 and ct-f9292 answered..they are truly wonderful decks!
now..after all these years im bringing sx-1050 home! im giddy, i really am, this is a dream come true.
i dont think im late to the party at all..this is truly fine equipment...im very happy!

teri patterson, Sep 22, 2016

This is the reason many Pio/Mar/Sui units sell for more than the other regulars, Kenwood, Harman Kardon, Onkyo are examples.

If you gotta have Pioneer, go for it. If you want the better sound quality and separates there are so many choices that a lot of people don't even know about either newer or vintage. Those were not the brands that folks gravitated to when they bought their first name brand receiver while lusting for the big boy in the line. A bit of kit similar to the Pioneer Spec units would perform way better and be less expensive by going to the 'high end' name brands and find some gear. Not talking McIntosh as that is stuff folks lusted for, too. Crown, Bryston, Harman Kardon Citation line, Hafler, B&K, Conrad Johnson, DB Systems, and Quad are some brands with vintage gear that many don't see often, easily the equal of the Pioneer for sound quality. And of course, many of the name brands had great separates, too, Denon, Yamaha, Luxman, Kenwood for sure with the L-0 gear.

If the name helps, Pioneer is just fine. If you want the best sound quality, there may be other choices but whether you would hear that difference without a/b listening, I don't know. Buy whatever you want. There is a lot of very nice separate gear out there.

Is it worth the money, that is up to you and your money. but there are enough folks convinced it is to keep the prices up there.

I'm glad you did not say Stereo Lust User Tax .
 
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