Army doctrine and education

bully

member
For those who may be interested.
The Army War College is one of the most prestigious assignments, selectees are bound for higher command.
The Army War College is located at historic Carlisle Barracks, PA.

Research by the students shows the general thinking of the Army (as does the Naval War College reflect the Navy's thinking) on strategic, operational & tactical levels.
It was from a student's research that led to the development of the Sea-Air-Land doctrine and the concept of unified command.

Oh, the Command and General Staff College at Fort Leavenworth is the final jewel of assignments for upwardly mobile officers from armies and navies around the world.
Our senior officer corps, colonel and naval captain up, are highly educated and skilled individuals. Besides attending service schools and colleges, most have at least one masters degree, and many have multiple masters and/or Ph.D's. The 'system' weeds 'em out ruthlessly: up or out.

http://carlisle-www.army.mil/
 
My Dad went to Leavenworth which is the only War College the AF goes to that I have ever heard of. That was in the 60s so who knows now?
 
I'm thinking that some of the "boys" that got us into our present war........ should've STAYED in college.

Almond, Toasted/MSgt, USAF
 
You couldn't mean a Floridagate frat boy with a C average in partying? This is going to (be polite now) turn into a goat rope.
So do you really think the New York Dodgers will go all the way?
 
Originally posted by Toasted Almond
I'm thinking that some of the "boys" that got us into our present war........ should've STAYED in college.

Almond, Toasted/MSgt, USAF


who is that TA? and why do you say that?
 
War should never be undertaken lightly.
"War is the continuation of politics by other means," to paraphrase Clausewitz.
If we are lucky, the political leaders have determined the strategic aims, and will leave the military professionals to determine the best means to achieve those goals.

Now, the die has been cast. Whatever we may believe, as individuals, our country is at war with a foreign power. There is no more serious business a nation may undertake. Our young men and women, soldiers, sailors, airmen, and marines, have been sent into action to engage enemy forces.
One may disagree with the politics that led us to this situation, but we MUST support our young men and women now 'in harms way.'
 
I agree with you Bully. We must support our troops, pray for all the young boys and girls, men and women out there who are risking their lives for some stubborn politicians and greedy businessmen. I just can't help it and become extremely angry or sad at the current admin whenever I hear a bad news from the front .
 
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Originally posted by hotgas
I just can't help it and become extremely angry or sad at the current admin whenever I hear a bad news from the front .


I guess that's where we differ...I get angry at Saddam.
 
As a South Vietnamese I've always appreciated US' intention to stop communism from getting into the South even it was unsuccessful. But a majority of South Vietnamese did not share my view. That is why the North could make people forget about all the cruel crimes that they committed since 1945 and was able to unite them to fight against the Americans.

History is repeated here. Bush did not understand that when he invades another country (no matter how good the intention is) the invaded citizens will always consider the foreigners bad aggressors and they will unite to fight. Look at what happened in Russia when Stalin was a dictator who killed roughly 10 to 20 millions Russians. The Russians still united behind Stalin and fought the Germans to death, captured and killed almost the whole invading German army. Same thing happened recently in Chechnya . A small state like Chechnya which has about 1 milion people almost successfully drove the brutal Russians out . And Russia is staying next door so there is no supply line protection to worry about. It has a big army. It is brutal (not like the allied) , has consistant policy (not changing due to alternating presidential power like the US) and determine to keep the Chechen in check. Iraq has more than 24 million people and has a strong army which is now adapting a guerilla tactics that is almost impossible to beat no matter how strong the invaders are. In 2000 years living next door with the Chinese, the Vietnamese with only 1/15 of that of Chinese population has been successfully defended its country using the same guerilla tactics. The Chinese came in whenever there was a new Vietnamese dictatorship regime so they could recruit Viet traitors to fight on their side but eventually only left with hundred thousands of bodies.

There are many lessons that this admin did not learn or did not want to learn and we the young and old Americans are paying for this mistake. Advanced technology can't fight guerillas. You are coming into a strange land with hostile or indifferent people around you. The only way out is to kill or capture Saddam and withdraw the army immediately to avoid another Saddam who can rally and unite his people to fight for their country. If you have too much humanity in your heart then you are fighting with one hand behind your back. If you are brutal like the Russians then you may be successful at the expense of being another cruel country like Russia, China, etc.. Either way you lose with a very low probability of success and a lot of dead bodies. The oil is not for you to take because the Turks will try to come in and the Kurdis will try to break away among with other ethnic groups once the brutal regime to keep them in check dissappears.

It is no doubt Saddam is a baddddd guy. But coming after him assuming this is a piece of cake like the Gulf War I is a very bad gamble that I will never forgive the current admin.
 
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Last night I was watching C-span...they had the CBCNews "The National" Canadian news broadcast on. I must admit...I was a bit surprised at the coverage.

I'm sure I'm not unlike many others across the US and across the globe...in that I have been watching the news a bit more than before this war. I've watched various news channels here in the US and have seen many of the press conferences by Pres. Bush, SS Powell and others.

I had also watched before the war started...and one thing I have noted long before we went over to Iraq was that this war would not be easy...this war would not be quick...and that there will be casualties.

Now...I figured that Canada would have different coverage than the US...and I suppose they should. But I was a bit taken back at how it was reported. So far, from the US news stations...I was under the impression that this war would not be quick...would not be easy...casualties would be had on both sides. As of yesterday I was also under the impression that coalition troops have traveled from within 50-100 miles of Baghdad. With other troops fighting various battles along the way. While there were battles in various places...there were still many objectives being met...and coalition forces have controlled much of a country in 8 days...with fighting going on along a certain military line.

After watching the Canadian news coverage I got the impression that their views were that the US and coalition forces were far behind schedual...running into fierce resistance at every turn. The Elite Iraqi guards are putting up fights that the US had never expected...The US may have possibly targeted a civilian market killing and attacking innocent people and their homes. The Pentagon could not comment if the missile was or was not theirs. The US is stalled out with far to little troops to combat the Elite guards. Then mention was made of how tough it would be if North Korea should decide to start a war now. Then interviews with Secretary of State Colin Powell...and they only have a sound bite where he states that "this will not be an easy war"...he said much more...but it was interesting that this was all they picked. One Military analyst they had on commented how the war is taking much longer than the US wanted.


I wanted to watch a couple other world-wide news coverages...but it was getting late. Here in the US, I think we're actually kinda lucky in the news coverage as a whole...you can find differing opinions...but most still just lay out the information for you to decide...good information...bad info...don't matter...here it is.

I actually liked the Canadian news coverage for their style of reporting the news...there wasn't news ticker things flashing all over...no big intro music and flashy graphics flying across the screen...I would actually prefer a news that was a mixture of the US and Canadian broadcast. I was always partial to the days of..."and now...the news".

Well...just thought it was interesting to see just how the reporting was done in a different country. I understand that this was just one news cast I seen...but I did find it interesting. Another thing that fascinates me is watching the British Parliament in action.


edit: I should add...The news channels I watch are MSNBC, CNN, FoXNews, C-Span 1 and C-span 2. I do think this does influence my opinion...which is kinda my point.
 
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I have yet to find a news program that is impartial. I guess the part that bothers me the most is why if all these things are true as the news says they are would our armed forces take a chance of "Advertising" what they are doing ? This in my opinion would just put our forces in even more peril !
 
News any more is "opinion".... not reporting.

The difference is not very hard to see.

Walter Cronkite used to tell just what happened, ....now you get how a given news channel thinks it should or shouldn't have happened.

And so called experts that say the army should do this, and not do that. Or it's too slow, or too fast.
They have no clue what really is planned, or why!

Too many stupid, uniformed opinions ! :mad:

The Pentagon now seems to think the bombing of the market in Bagdad was by Iraqi rockets, that are being shot at US planes.

The old tech Iraqi anti-aircraft missiles use radar as a guide, and the radar has been fried by US planes. So their missiles run wild, with no guidence system. They may have simply come back down and hit Bagdad.
 
Originally posted by grumpy
I have yet to find a news program that is impartial.

I agree grump...none are impartial...and we are all getting different information around the world. This is what I think is interesting when you hear world opinions on-line. I certainly can't say that the US is getting unbiased information...nor can I say that about any others contries news.

I think it's just something to keep in mind when you hear differing opinions. When I was watching the CBCnews last night...I couldn't help but wonder if I would view the war from a different perspective if I lived in a different country. I am not saying any one way is right or wrong...but I suspect that they all do have their biases.


Originally posted by grumpy
I guess the part that bothers me the most is why if all these things are true as the news says they are would our armed forces take a chance of "Advertising" what they are doing ? This in my opinion would just put our forces in even more peril !

I'm sure effort is made to restrict information that would harm any mission from coming out too early.



Originally posted by Shain
News any more is "opinion".... not reporting.

The difference is not very hard to see.

Walter Cronkite used to tell just what happened, ....now you get how a given news channel thinks it should or shouldn't have happened.

and now...the news. I do miss those days of actually reporting the news. :(

Originally posted by Shain
And so called experts that say the army should do this, and not do that. Or it's too slow, or too fast.
They have no clue what really is planned, or why!

Too many stupid, uniformed opinions ! :mad:

Couldn't agree more. Instead of reporting news...many times these news stations create news. What I do think is good is that we are given good news along with bad (I don't think all places are like this) ...what I do agree with you about is that too many news stations give way too much of their own opinion...or someone else who happens to be on their payroll.

Originally posted by Shain
The Pentagon now seems to think the bombing of the market in Bagdad was by Iraqi rockets, that are being shot at US planes.

The old tech Iraqi anti-aircraft missiles use radar as a guide, and the radar has been fried by US planes. So their missiles run wild, with no guidence system. They may have simply come back down and hit Bagdad.

They suspected this the whole time...but could not verify it. It was just interesting to note how the CBCnews reported it.



Maybe I'm a little strange...but during our trip to Maine...we stopped at a few places along the way (yes...we drove)...One place in particular was New York state (what beautiful land they have!) It was interesting to me that the New York news was far more conservative than Chicago based news.

What a nice trip it was tho...and to drive...really made the trip! Sure, it was a looooong drive...but it sure was purty!
 
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I believe it was Walter Cronkite that voiced the opinion that the US was loosing the war in Viet Nam after the Tet offensive by the NVA and the Viet Cong in 1968. That statement was total horseshit and did more damage stateside than anything (Hanoi) Jane Fonda ever did.
To say that the reporting in the US is impartial is sad. The media probably causes more problems than most people realize. Just the fact that they are present in such numbers has to create problems that the military should not have to deal with. We the people do not have the right to know a damned thing if that knowledge leads to so much as a scratch to any of the people over there fighting or supporting them.
Just a couple of nights ago there was a program on PBS that showed how to make a "Dirty Bomb" and how to set it off in the DC subway to cause cancer in US citizens. How responsible is that kind of crap?
Yea, I am pissed off!
 
The Lunar new year has always been the happiest time in a year to me. The 1968 Tet offensive turned it into a disaster as VC violated the cease fire agreement not to fight during this sacred period. I was so young to understand its impact until many years later. I still remember how we, South Vietnamese soldiers and American GI's, kicked the VC's butts in Hue. We took Hue back after one month of bloody fighting and killed so many VC that destroyed their potetial for many years. I was only so joyful because that would teach them a lesson for ruining my happiest time!

The news here in the US is not as impartial as you might think. Many important news are not released by the military but it is ok for the military to do so because of our troops' safety. However, news is leaking into the American media from other foreign sources and if Americans are prepared to accept such bad news then it will not become shocking surprise like the Tet offensive one.

I also think the news on TV is kind of biased recently. It shows how the military experts optimistically think of the Iraqis poor fighting will or manipulates our thinking into believing we are liberating a nation from a mad man. Many people are led to believe that this is going to be a short war and how disappointed they are when they realize the Iraqis do not welcome the Allied and they actually are now fighting for their country. The US went through the same process of denial in VN. Their initial assessment was that the VC were poorly trained, ill-equipped and demoralized and would not last a few months. After several months, they said the "highly ideologized" elements were putting a fight because they saw no future in a democracỵ After several years, they said the population was in such fear for their lives they could not refuse to fight. And finally they said the VC were using civilians as shields.

We see news about how much progress has been made such as the 3-7th division is now in blah blah or more than 1000 parachuters landing in the Nothern Iraq and we suddently forgot that in the VN war at one time all the South was completely occupied and stationed with more than 500,000 GI's from Ben Hai to Ca Mau. The VC was only staying in caves and tunnels and living off supplies from local citizens. We can't tell the difference between an Iraqi soldier and an Iraqi citizen so how can we single them out to end the war early. Just no way! And until now what if Saddam suddently opens the shield to invite the Allied to come inside Bagdad fr an urban combat whether the Allied take the bait or not? It will be a bloody mess for both sides and do we ,the Americans who are so concerned about our precious lives, have the heart for coming bad news?

If you all remember the Soviet/Afghan war, the invasion went reasonably easily, but the occupation, which lasted for 10 years, did not. The name " Shock and awe" reflects a very arrogant attitude from this admin and after 2 weeks into the war guess who is shocked and awed?
 
guys...I know that our news is also biased. But I was taken a bit after seeing the Canadian news...just how they reported it...and what they reported. It was really interesting to see another countries news compared to our own. It made me wonder what some other news reports are like in countries even further away. Again...no I don't think they're impartial at all...but the differences were a bit surprising to me...tho not unexpected.

again...no I don't think this will be an easy war (are any?)...nor do I think we'll get out without more casualties...I have never thought it would be. I do however believe we will accomplish our objectives.


Who has said this war would be easy? Every Bush address I have seen he always repeated that this war may go on for an entended period of time...it may take weeks, months or even years...but we would not stop until the objectives are met. He has stated this from before the war to recent...Which is only a little over a week into it...which is not that long. This is a war with active ground troops...it is not simply a bombing or air campaign...I would not expect it to be over in a week...or even two...or even...

I have heard differing opinions made by all news stations early on. I think they may have just been making assumptions based on our initial bombing and also based on the initial opinions based on their arm chair commentators. Once again...they were reporting many things as facts...when they were assumptions (most of their own!)

Hotgas...I'm glad your doing well...I can only try to imagine what you went thru...I hope you and your family are doing well.


well...that's about it fer now...see ya's
 
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