AT carts and resistance/inductance: 4201-DEX stylus compatible?

S

Starquest

Super Member
I've got some form of an AT VM8, whose resistance is evidently 1200 ohms and 670 mH inductance. I want to try the EVG (4)201-DEX or TTN's 201B-DEM (which I suspect are the same thing). However, they're apparently intended for the AT12XE and its ilk (same resistance but inductance of 1000 mH).

I have no doubt this stylus will work on my VM8, but how well it'll work is to be determined.

@wualta and/or others -- opinions?
 
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Starquest said:
I've got some form of an AT VM8, whose resistance is evidently 1200 ohms and 670 mH inductance. I want to try the EVG (4)201-DEX or TTN's 201B-DEM (which I suspect are the same thing). However, they're apparently intended for the AT12XE and its ilk (same resistance but inductance of 1000 mH).

I have no doubt this stylus will work on my VM8, but how well it'll work is to be determined.

@wualta and/or others -- opinions or guidance on this?
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That isn´t correct, AT12Xe has the same body, and the same Inductance.
 
With the AT12XE (and many other models), it depends on which A-T spec sheet you're looking at. A-T themselves published two different sets of figures. My guess is that the higher inductance figures are newer.
AT12XE specs showing lower inductance.jpg AT12XE specs showing higher inductance.jpg
I don't know whether the actual physical cartridges changed or whether the specs were adjusted to match production, which is one of the reasons why I've been recommending that people get an inexpensive digital inductance-capacitance-resistance meter to really find out what's inside their cartridges. I also don't know whether there were two sets of specs for the VM8. All I can do is recommend getting an inductance reading of the actual cartridge in your hands.

An aftermarket version of the ATN12XE may or may not have the same voicing as the original, so there are too many variables here for me to make a prediction. Worst case, the EVG stylus turns out to be just a tad bright (as all too many aftermarket styli are), was voiced for the 1000mH body, but then gets put in a 670mH body. Is that bad? My guess would be no, but the only way to know for sure is to try it.
 
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I haven´t seen the spec with 1000mH, mine states 670, the question is if there really are two different kind of bodies. This must be measured to really know.
 
wualta said:
With the AT12XE (and many other models), it depends on which A-T spec sheet you're looking at. A-T themselves published two different sets of figures. My guess is that the higher inductance figures are newer..
Click to expand...

Thanks @wualta and @gusten . But what's this?

Gary's site says: "201DEM and 201DQ are NOT interchangeable with 201DEX and 201DQX!"

TTN says something similar: "known as the "201 -DEM" in other circles, we have renamed this needle the "201B-DEM" because it is NOT interchangeable with the "201 -DEX" and "201 -DQX"


Why would these not be compatible? They appear to all have the same stylus grip. I wonder if they're referring to only OEM styli not being compatible across those models.
 
Starquest said:
Thanks @wualta and @gusten . But what's this?

Gary's site says: "201DEM and 201DQ are NOT interchangeable with 201DEX and 201DQX!"

TTN says something similar: "known as the "201 -DEM" in other circles, we have renamed this needle the "201B-DEM" because it is NOT interchangeable with the "201 -DEX" and "201 -DQX"


Why would these not be compatible? They appear to all have the same stylus grip. I wonder if they're referring to only OEM styli not being compatible across those models.
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No they don´t have the same grip. They fit different cartridges.
 
Now you're talking about AT12 and AT13 styli, and no, they're not the same mechanically, not swappable. So the "201B-DEM" (ATS13E) won't fit your VM8, but the 201-DEX (ATN12XE) will, because your VM8 is basically an AT10/11/12.
 
Funnily enough, there wasn't only that somewhat mysterious inductance change from the earlier AT10 to AT20SLa to the later AT10 to AT20SS specs, but there also was a DC resistance change between the earlier VM3/VM8/VM35 and the later VM3/VM8/VM35(F) specs (1.1 vs. 1.2 kOhm), which also is somewhat mysterious, as the other comparable parameters (output voltage and impedance in the latter case) also didn't change.

So at least on paper, there should be three variants of the stereo generator and two variants of the CD4 generator, as far as I'm aware.

Greetings from Munich!

Manfred / lini
 
Aha! So those of us possessed of VMs and AT10s to AT20s and inductance meters should get busy. My single AT13E is 890mH. An AT12XE clone is 1100mH. Various Akai/JVC clones of the AT12S are anywhere from 390 to 450mH. A JVC clone of the VM35F is 370mH. A Signet TK1E (basically an AT12) is 1000mH.
 
Whoa. That's about right for a VM-35F. Are you sure you have a VM8 body?
 
wualta said:
Whoa. That's about right for a VM-35F. Are you sure you have a VM8 body?
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Yes, it's a VM8 HII (H2). I can't find a spec sheet for it, but it's gotta be a rebranded/renumbered equivalent for something. I figured before measuring the resistance that it'd be the same as the VM8H. I probably shoulda boughta inductance meter two years ago when I started all this :)
 
Deffnly! Well, it's not too late. For a search term, use UA6243L and find one whose seller has a good feedback rating. Don't pay more than $20 shipped. Might look like this:

LCR meter UA6243L small.jpg

For cartridge and turntable work, you'd use
2k range for resistance
2H range for inductance
2000P range for checking cable capacitance
 
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